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[Hobbess]

Just to carry on the fails!

[step]

I've been reading up on all this stuff for the past few days and it seems that this may be a Patterson map.

You can read about these here, here, and here. Also this applet has 2 example pattersons, with the 2nd being fairly similar to the pattern on this card

Assuming this theory is correct, with a bit of work we should be able to work out the number and position of atoms in a unit cell; which should help narrow down the list of candidate substances.

[Fuseunderground]

Apologies if I repeat other people's info,
It's just that I think it could be so close,
I wanted to state what I think we can say about the substance.

BTW this is far from my field, but I managed to talk to someone who knew
a bit about it, and they pointed me in the right direction.
(and I am still assuming the answer is the name of the substance)

It is Def. a diffraction pattern 99% sure it's X-ray
Using notes here (particularly handout 2)
http://matsci.uah.edu/CourseWare/mts721/

We can say:
It is inorganic
It is a single crystal
It is Monoclinic
There are no mirror planes (so maybe the hall of mirrors refers simply to a crystal)
It appears to be made up of at least 5 elements
Its Space group must satisfy L=2n as the separations are multiples of 2

The Beta angle cannot be at 90
Which it does not appear to be as illustrated in patternnotes.jpg
Note also the distinction that there is nothing at -10-4 or 104 which will help distinguish it from other members of its space group.

If we identify which Space group it is in we can narrow down the search
Someone may be able to confirm it on this site:
http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/SYMMETRY/3dSpaceGrps/3DSPGR010-015.HTM

The Beta angle appears at about 95 degrees, though due to the symmetry
it must actually be a different value (possibly 85 [180-95])

Searching on http://www.crystallography.net/
with an angle of 85 gives only 1 result, at this point I thought I had found something significant, as other angles give hundreds of results, but I cannot identify the substance.
It has a formula H ₈ O ₁₂ S ₂ K ₂ Mn ₁ Any ideas?

I was really hoping it would be 'Cryptomelane' but alas not accepted.

Out of interest, drawing this chemical and giving it's powder diffraction results (the other 3 attached images) show a fairly similar pattern to the card.

I'm not saying it is this chemical, but it does have many aspects that fit to what we know.

Bearing in mind I hadn't heard of X-ray crystallography a week ago,
everything I have just said may be absolute rubbish,
but even so it might prompt someone who does know what they are talking about to find the answer.

Thanks for listening... [/img]

[Stiltskin]

I've not got the card, but reading through this one (as cipher of history is driving me nuts), has anyone tried radiation as an answer?

It seems to be differently lethal, as it can create cancer as well as kill it. Also the pictures shows X-Ray diffraction, a type of radiation. And finally my reasoning that the clue - a deadly hall of mirrors - has been used to describe the cold war, where both sides needed the same number of nuclear weapons.

Anyway just my tuppence worth...

[ALISDAIRPARK]

that was a good suggestion Stiltskin, but I can confirm it failed.

Incidentally Sherbet, could you update your list if you're still about? I would copy and update myself, but it seems a little daft having another list, thanks.

[SteveC]

Beginning to think I'll have to join the ranks of those nigh on ignoring the clue now, so how about my random guess, Methamphetamine, anyone wanna try it?

[ALISDAIRPARK]

Fuseunderground, lots of good stuff in there -

Is the first image one from a site, or your scan? If it's an image from elsewhere it looks like a match to me...

Also the substance you mention is Leonite, but I can't see any link to either Differently Lethal, or Hall of Mirrors

[Uhtoff]

As for the radiation idea I tried both Xrays and X-rays, of course from the same concept as Polar I guess I should have tried Xray and X-Ray too...

EDIT - Done it, no dice.

[GasparLewis]

You see, what Fuse got is exactly what we needed: cold hard analysis.

Now, if we take what we've deduced to another person with crystallography know-how, we may very well derive an answer.

I know it's a little base of me, but I always feel better when I see graphs and images; the reorganization of the data always seems to shed new light, you know?

Guess all you like in the interim, but try and fit it within what we have at least. A guess-fest without any clues is only a wild goosechase (like I said on page... 6, was it?)

So, cheers to Space and Fuse for pushing us along in the right direction and making very pretty pictures!

[Stiltskin]

[Uhtoff]

To add to Fuse's analysis as it has no mirror symmetry it 'should' be a sphenoidal monoclinic crystal. Out of interest pretty much all arsenic salts are sphenoidal monoclinic crystals.

[Fuseunderground]

In response to ALISDAIRPARK,
The first image is an image of the card, with notes added to point out important features,
It is not from another site, I haven't been able to find any galleries of images similar to the card, anyone else?

It is almost certainly not that compound I said before,
I just used it as an example, to illustrate that when we can state the Beta angle (to do with reflection) and the space group,
we should be able to identify the substance.

[ALISDAIRPARK]

Stiltskin

[sherbet]

alisdair, ive been away with the fairies, only checking in to see if theres been a solve, not done any new attempts myself, but ill update the list asap, and ill try and do columns again, if itll let me this time!

[ALISDAIRPARK]

Thanks Sherbet, did you have fun with the the fairies?