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 Forum index » Diversions » Console/Video Game Discussion
Xbox 360
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ubercado
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 		The add-on with probably be for the early adopters and eventually it will make it's way in place of the internal dual-layer dvd that the system comes with.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:33 pm
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Grifter_7
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 		More info on the HD-DVD Add-on.

Xbox 360 HD-DVD for Movies only and No Internal HD-DVD Planned
From Gamespot:
Gamespot wrote:

Microsoft has been a driving force behind the new HD-DVD next-generation optical disc format. But the Xbox manufacturer surprised many when it chose to package the Xbox 360 with a normal DVD drive rather than an HD-DVD drive, especially because Sony has announced that the PlayStation 3 will feature Blu-ray, a competing format.

However, HD-DVD was front and center last night during Microsoft's CES 2006 keynote address, as Microsoft corporate vice president Peter Moore also used the occasion to announce that Microsoft will offer an external HD-DVD drive for the Xbox 360.

In the past, console manufacturers have fragmented their system install bases by introducing optional optical disc drives after a system's release. Devices like the Sega CD and the TurboGrafx CD-ROM allowed systems to run superior games. But splitting the console base between basic systems and systems with CD support made the CD systems less attractive for content developers that prefer to develop for a single platform with a large installation base. Peter Moore clarified to GameSpot that the new external Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive will be used for video only, not games.

"Right now it's focused purely on movie playback. Think of the drive as something that lets you play high-definition movies on the Xbox 360." The external drive will function as an alternative to purchasing a separate HD-DVD playback device: "If you want to watch HD-DVD movies and if you own an Xbox 360, there will be no reason for you to go out and buy another player."

Microsoft has considered the benefits of HD-DVD for games, but Moore is confident that the current Xbox 360 system and Xbox Live service are fine for next-gen gaming. "HD-DVD from the gameplay point of view is primarily about media storage as is of course Blu-ray," he said. "Our developers are very comfortable with the [Xbox 360's] storage options--I think they're utilizing Xbox Live very creatively, and the hard drive, we have a very strong attach rate for the hard drive."

Microsoft hasn't announced a price point for the HD-DVD drive or possible system bundles, but Moore made it clear that Microsoft will not create a new Xbox 360 with a built-in HD-DVD drive. "If you actually built a HD-DVD new Xbox 360, that fragments [the installation base] even further. So the idea of having an external peripheral is far better to keep the user base consistent rather than build yet another Xbox 360 that has HD-DVD built in--that means millions of people won't have that."

According to Moore, the drive is planned for release "this year," but the console connection format has yet to be determined.

As for the outcome of the HD-DVD and Blu-ray battle, Moore likes what HD-DVD has to offer, but he admits, "I'm old enough to remember Betamax. The consumer in the end will make the decision."


HD-DVD: Microsoft's folly?
From CNN Money:
CNN Money wrote:

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) – As it ramped up the hype machine for the Xbox 360, Microsoft coined a new term: The High Definition Era. Wednesday in Las Vegas, it took the next step, announcing plans for a HD-DVD accessory for the video game machine. Question is: Will the move do any good?

Don't misunderstand. Microsoft certainly needed to do something to acknowledge the coming improvements in the DVD format - and it was hardly a mystery that it had chosen to take a position counter to Sony's (Research) Blu-Ray technology.
Microsoft's Xbox 360
Microsoft's Xbox 360
Want more video game news and commentary? Click the glazed eyes.

There were certainly practical advantages to bypassing HD-DVD as an included feature of the Xbox 360, as well. Going with a standard DVD player kept costs down substantially. But yesterday's announcement could irk some the system's early adopters.

At present, Microsoft (Research) says the HD-DVD will only be for movies. There are no current plans to offer games on HD-DVDs.

That could – and very likely will - change, of course. As developers begin to truly take advantage of the system's features in the coming months and years, you're going to see games that cannot fit onto a single DVD. In fact, that's already happening. The developer of "Enchant Arms," an upcoming role-playing game in Japan, told Gamespot.com last year it was hoping to be able to fit the game on two discs, but admitted "that's even looking grim." Any old school gamer can tell you that switching discs while playing is not a fun experience.

Game developers are in something of a bind, though. Even if Microsoft opens up the HD-DVD player for game software and even if sales of the peripheral soar, game makers will still have to publish two versions of the game, which could confuse and frustrate consumers.

Even worse, it could result in a situation mirroring what the PC gaming industry currently faces. The industry standard for PCs is still CDs. While DVD-ROMs are becoming more widespread in newer machines, they still haven't hit a critical mass, so publishers and retailers continue to publish titles on multiple CDs rather than a single DVD, resulting in some frustration among gamers. (You don't have to swap CDs as you play, as you used to with floppy discs, but loading the game onto your hard drive takes noticeably longer.)

Truth be told, it's likely to be a while before the HD-DVD accessory gains traction. Microsoft pointedly avoided discussing a price Wednesday, but the new drives aren't likely to be cheap. Toshiba recently announced plans to sell a stand-alone HD-DVD player for $499. Even if Microsoft's version sells for considerably less, you're still likely to see a price tag equal to or greater than the price of the core Xbox 360 unit.

Granted, most current Xbox 360 owners – and a sizable percentage of the folks who buy one as this year progresses – are early adopters and interested in the latest and greatest gadgets, but I suspect if they're going to spend that much for a HD-DVD player, they'll opt for a standalone unit.

All that said, Microsoft's no fool for releasing this add-on. If nothing else, it's a good way to test user-acceptance of the format without committing the company to it. Should Blu-Ray emerge the winner in this latest round of media format wars, Microsoft can always choose to go in that direction with its next incarnation of Xbox, keeping the option of backward-compatibility open. (Both HD-DVD and Blu Ray can play current generation DVDs, but not the rival format.)

Ultimately, the availability of a HD-DVD accessory probably won't hurt or help Microsoft. It will serve its purpose, though: Preventing Sony from being able to accurately say the PS3 is the only game machine with a high definition DVD drive. And as the battle between those two companies escalates this year, that's no small thing.


My comments: MS HAS to develop games for the HD-DVD or Sony will blow them out of the water. Now give the consumer HD-DVD games and a bigger HD (say 100 Gig) and you'll have the upper hand most certainly.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:20 am
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water10
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 		I've been discussing this in another forum.

I think if MS develops games using hd-dvd format, early adopters will be pretty pissed off! And that's not good business when you do that to the very same people that are your big supporters! Most people are waiting to see how the PS3 will be and most early adopters are either multi-console people or MS supporters.

And we're talking about video-games here, where brand loyalty is a HUGE factor! Fanboyism is rampant in every dedicated video game forum. From all the people that say "I'd never buy a console from this company, no matter what they do", MS is the main target. And announcing an add-on that might be required instead of optional, just 1-2 months from launch (well withing their own definition of "launch window") will increase this, and turn some of their supporters in haters.


I'm really hoping this add-on remains optional and for movies only. And I can only hope that x360 + add-on = cheaper than PS3, so people on the fence will consider going for the 360. And If they need to release games on hd-dvd, they should release like some PC games (where you have options to buy in DVD or multiple CD's), and release in hd-dvd or multiple dual layered dvd's. They love split skus anyway!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:46 am
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thunderclap8
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 		I'm with Waters. MS lost a lot of good will already by creating a separate core bundle and fractionalizing (look! a madeup word!) the market. Bad idea to do it any further. I can tell you right now that if I need to buy the add-on drive to play a game, I will not be getting a 360 for a VERY long time. The system is out of my price range even without more requirements.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:28 am
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Grifter_7
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 		I agree with what Waters and Thunderclap are saying but I think that eventually the decision will have to be made by Microsoft to switch to HD-DVD format games. I don't actipate that happening immediately but I think eventually it will.

You have to also remember that MS has already planned to have a price drop for the 360 at the time of launch of the PS3 (not to mention a little game called Halo 3 which Bungie is holding out on admitting to be developing....) If you look at the price drop and the added HD-DVD, I think that it will put MS in the same ballpark of price point with Sony. Not to mention that evetually the HD-DVD will probably be bundled with the 360 (Required to buy if you purchase a 360). So those who are holding out will get the HD-DVD whether they want it or not, and the early adapters will buy the HD-DVD add-on for the same reason that they bought the 360 at launch (which Waters stated nicely above).

I totally agree that the price of the 360 + the HD-DVD add-on will have to be less than the price of the PS3 otherwise MS will be shooting themselves in the foot.

Fractionalization of the market so to speak was bad by-product of the core and premium, but what serious gamer actually bought a core??? And if they did, they bought it because there was no premium available and they bought the other accessories seperate, so in essence they upgraded their core to the premium.

MS is in the mindset to please the average consumer while at the same time meeting the needs of the serious gamer. Unfortunatlely this sometimes means that the serious gamer is put to the test financially so that their needs are met. It's the nature of the beast, and I would expect that MS will continue this plan of action moving forward. (AKA HD-DVD movies only at first, then later HD-DVD games).

In a direct comparison of the 360 vs the PS3, the PS3 will have an advantage of Blue Ray (if the consumer can afford it). 360 needs an answer to the Blue Ray and that answer is the HD-DVD.

My opinion on this is that MS planned this out all along. They knew the 360 would sell at launch $300-$400. Wait 6-9 months, launch the HD-DVD add-on for ~$200 + price drop for the 360 down to $250-$350. (Total for 360 with HD add-on = $450-$550) PS3 launchs a MUCH higher price point.
In the gamers mind they can pay $200 to get the HD-DVD upgrade (assuming they already have the 360).
Hold outs will see that they can pay $550 to get the 360 + Add-on as comparied to the PS3 price tag.

In summary I don't think that fractuliazation will play a roll in HD-DVD format games being developed for the 360..... Eventually.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:06 pm
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Clayfoot
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thunderclap8 wrote:
fractionalizing (look! a madeup word!)
As were all words at one time, I'm sure.

frac·tion·al·ize (frăk'shə-nə-līz')
tr.v., -ized, -iz·ing, -iz·es.

To divide into separate parts or sections: conflicting interests that tend to fractionalize a society.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:10 pm
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Clayfoot
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Grifter_7 wrote:
I agree with what Waters and Thunderclap are saying but I think that eventually the decision will have to be made by Microsoft to switch to HD-DVD format games.
Why? What does HD-DVD format get you, anyway? Are games even filling up a whole DVD as it is? Filling up more disc space isn't free; you have to pay extra to develop the material (characters, video clips, music, whatever)and to print the HD discs. Will HD format drives just wind up making games cost more, with no appreciable benefit?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:17 pm
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Grifter_7
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Clayfoot wrote:
Grifter_7 wrote:
I agree with what Waters and Thunderclap are saying but I think that eventually the decision will have to be made by Microsoft to switch to HD-DVD format games.
Why? What does HD-DVD format get you, anyway? Are games even filling up a whole DVD as it is? Filling up more disc space isn't free; you have to pay extra to develop the material (characters, video clips, music, whatever)and to print the HD discs. Will HD format drives just wind up making games cost more, with no appreciable benefit?


The price of next gen games has already been set at $59.99 and it should not increase again.

The major benefit is that of convience. Developers can put more data onto one disc. Think of one of your current DVD sets consolidated to one disc. You'd never have to change discs. Developers are cueently limited as to how much content to put onto a DVD and they do not want to return to the days of CD gaming when the user had to switch discs in the middle of games.

Also the difference in cost of manufacturing a HD-DVD vs a current DVD is negligable due to the fact that the process is almost identical. Blue-Ray on the other had is a totally different manufacturing process which will be costly to setup.

HEre's an article that describes the differences in HD-DVD and DVD.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:58 pm
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 		Moore: Blu-ray Xbox 360 add-on possible
From gamespot.com:
gamespot.com wrote:

At Microsoft's big CES keynote address last week, Bill Gates announced that the company will release an add-on peripheral to read HD-DVD discs on the Xbox 360. Considering that console rival Sony is a primary backer of the competing Blu-ray format of high capacity discs, it came as little surprise that Microsoft would side with Toshiba's HD-DVD standard. The company's support for the HD-DVD camp has been apparently strong, with reports from late last year suggesting the company is offering cash incentives to PC makers that adopt HD-DVD drives into their systems.

However, despite the obvious preference for HD-DVD, it seems Microsoft isn't willing to completely tie its fate to the format just yet. During CES 2006, Microsoft's Xbox corporate VP of worldwide marketing and publishing Peter Moore told Japanese site ITmedia that a Blu-ray Xbox 360 peripheral could appear for the system if the need arises. Moore admitted that Microsoft isn't sure of the next-generation format war's outcome, with the worst-case scenario being a repeat of the Beta vs. VHS war of the '80s.

However, he suggested that whatever the outcome of the HD-DVD/Blu-ray war, the Xbox 360 can adopt the dominant format since its uses an external drive. He also suggested that it's a weak point for PlayStation 3, saying Sony's system is stuck with Blu-ray. Microsoft hasn't announced how the HD-DVD peripheral will connect to the Xbox 360, but it's most likely going to use one of the system's USB ports. While the PS3 may come with Blu-ray out of the box, there's no apparent reason an external HD-DVD drive couldn't be hooked up through that system's USB ports.

Moore once again confirmed that the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 is only for watching movies, and there are currently no plans to use it for games, nor are there plans to release an Xbox 360 with an internal HD-DVD drive.

Switching to the subject of the Xbox 360's launch in Japan, Moore admitted that sales has been slow in the country. He said the biggest factor contributing to the poor sales in Japan has been the lack of games, as only six titles were available at launch. He cited the delay of Dead or Alive 4 as being particularly influential to the less than stellar debut of the console.

When asked if Microsoft considered delaying the console's launch until there were enough games for the Japanese market, Moore said it wasn't an option. He added that a global launch within 2005 had been Microsoft's business goal and a change to that plan wouldn't be considered, especially since Japan is a vital market. Moore once again emphasized that Microsoft is taking the Japanese market seriously, developing multiple titles catering to the Japanese audience such as Blue Dragon, produced by former Square executive Hironobu Sakaguchi. Moore hopes that the titles will boost sales of the Xbox 360 in Japan in the future.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:00 pm
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