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[anon]

For those of you who have investigated the possability of a book cypher using Cryptonomicon, can you tell me what printing version you've used? I have the 2003 Avon paperback. I have tried various ideas relating to a book cypher, but realize that the original hardcover would be a better choice as the book. Has the Avon hardcover and the Harper Perennial paperback been used as a book for a book cypher?

[anon]

Sorry, forgot to ask this in my last post... Does anyone have the bicycle 2000 deck? I know it would mean having to explain what it was doing in Perplex City (probably a replica), but the face of the cards have pictures and text on them and I was wondering if maybe the letters somehow point to specific cards in that deck. I don't know what exactly is on the face of the cards, but assuming it's just moments in the past century's history maybe, for example, the queen of spades is like Warner Brothers Studios Something Something and that is the first WB card in the deck. Lame example, but you see what I mean? Hmm... I guess there's a lot of X's... but still, if someone has the deck, can you look it over from that point of view? Shouldn't take much to eliminate it as an idea. Thanks.

[anon]

Von's hint says something like, "as for the code..." How much thought is put into these things? I wonder if that's a hint away from solitaire since that is a cypher and not a code. Is that something we could ask someone like garnet or whoever. Something like, "would you consider a cypher a code?" Can we ask Von questions about the clues?

aside: Funny, I thought that on the heels of CIH getting solved, the last remaining solvable silver would get more attention. Maybe when more americans start in we'll actually get some where.

[Stratman]

Does anyone have the bicycle 2000 deck? was just asked.

Not a whole deck. but...
http://www.playingcardsales.co.uk/cards/moreimages/13374_8_bicycle_2000.jpg

I thought of this a while back but couldnt even see these few in the 108 character string...Isaac Newton, Mother Theresa, Richard Nixon, Empire State Building, etc. The W card is odd..is that a joker?

Also, I think the back design of the 2000 deck was resurrected from an earlier design (which I cant find an example of). The 2000 back has the letters 2000 above and below the globe in the centre and has what look like windmill graphics in each corner and in the centre (where the motorbikes and the compass (?) are.

FWIW I have been working on running the Solitaire cipher over a pack in new Bicycle deck order but with one joker placed at every possible position in the deck on the assumption one joker had been removed, had a star put on it and replaced randomly...it said all cards were new and untouched apart from one joker...
All gibberish so far...

Well done all on the CoH solve...a lesson learned there...go back and read all the previous posts carefully...the direction might be staring us in the face.

[Stratman]

Oops...I meant to add
On the point of is it a cipher or a code?...that had occurred to me also, but on an earlier post, Garnet replied to a question...

Hello -
You're quite right, Professor Kiteway was involved. If you can tell me what the message you deciphered was, I can shed some light on the mystery for you.
Best Wishes,
Garnet.

I still think a Solitaire cipher looks favourite.

[Guin]

As I am still awaiting the M11 to reopen I thought id do some snooping. Ive found an online outlet that has a deck of the bicycle 2000 cards and am gonna invest in them I had a random thought when I looked at the cards posted earlier it goes something like this:

we have 108 chararters (if memory servers me well) - the deck has 54 cards - what if the key to the solitair deck is the initials of the people on the cards - such as MT = mother teressa etc and the cold letters are the order of the initials thus the keying of the deck and thus the way to solve the solitarie?

Talking rubbish again lol

[Hunting4Treasure]

For what it's worth, a little something to think about... These cards were 'made in China' and the 'United States Playing Card Company' (USPCC), who makes the 'Bicycle' (among others) brand of cards, is in Cincinnati Ohio. Also, like others, I believe that is a motorcycle/motorbike, and not a bicycle on the corners. 'Bicycle' cards seem to all have a dollar sign on the Jokers, but 'Bee' cards (also produced by the 'United States Playing Card Company' have a 'Star'. But I digress... The pack on the 'Shuffled' card is made in China!

Maybe all we need to do is focus on the code, and *maybe* the deck graphic holds a clue of how to decipher it, but I'm thinking an actual deck with that *exact* graphic doesn't exist (the 2000/Millennium cards are *not* exact)... It kind of looks like a mixture of decks to me.

[anon]

[oog] I totally agree with the idea that this is just a composite deck with, quite possibly, no hidden meaning. I mean if I was designing a fictitious deck of cards I'd prolly grab some obscure limited edition deck and add some artwork to it to make it my own creation. I probably wouldn't think of all the red herrings it would create either, but... [/oog] six months ago it would be smart to dismiss potential time wasting endevors, but with only three cards out there to solve and many ideas exhausted I think we have the time, brain power, and desparation to try anything.

Has anyone compiled a list of evrything everyone has tried into one concise location? It might be worth it at some point to set something up somewhere (perhaps the wiki) that has categories of ideas tried and not yet tried so new people trying to work on this don't repeat the same deadend steps. It might also serve to locate where we aren't being as thorough as we might think we are (people using brute force attacks, filtering results by words assumed to be in the final message, but not trying certain less likely filter words, etc.).

I mean, I generate a lot of gargage text strings and there's no way I can slog through it all so I do "search in text" on a short list of key words. Maybe my short list is severly lacking. Wouldn't it suck donkey balls if the decoded message was sitting here in one of my 50 or so 20mb or greater .txt files, mocking me and my every attempt...

And what about a support group for those addicted to solving this card. Where can we get the help we need to rebuild our shattered lives and broken families? And for the love of god, won't someone think of the children!?! SHUFFLED!!!

[doomsdayred]

To settle it why doesn't someone email Bicycle card company with a scan and ask for identification?

[Hunting4Treasure]

I mistakenly called the card company 'American Card Company' above, when it is 'United States Playing Card Company' (USPCC), and have corrected it.

Here is a good list of many card companies, with USPCC at the top.

[donstobbart]

I already checked with a guy who collects playing cards, posted his reply a couple of pages ago. He thought it was not a "real" deck, but no harm in getting a second opinion. Will post as soon as I get a reply.


Don

[bertyb]

I have a new idea on a way forward to attack this.....will take a while but all logic says it should create a solve at some point.

The other problem I have with this idea is I have no idea where to start and my program writing skills are not the best.

First step:

Generate every possible permutation of the numbers 1-54 (the deck) for all the cards in the deck in every possible order.

This is 230,843,697,339,241,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible variations.

Second step:

Take a piece of the cipher text and convert to number vs every possible line. Do the subtraction of one from the other across the board, and convert back into letters.

Third step:

Scan through the information to see if there is any sensical data and if there is use that deck order on the other parts of cipher text to see what crops up.

If we can get somebody to write the program - then we can share the output between many people to scan through.

I know it is a long way round....but I want a solve on this one.

[Guest]

isnt that brute forcing it though?

[bertyb]

I suppose if you want to get technical.

It is just doing my head in.

[UKver2.0]

You crazy brits... I understand your thinking bertyb, but the problem with such an effort is that you will simply generate every possible 108 letter combination - not once, but twice! So in effect you will have narrowed the search to any 108 character string that is made up of letters. Make something up and it will be in there. For example, "bertybdidntthinkthisoneout" <---- that'll be in there thousands of times!

The good news is that you don't need to know how to program to make random guesses, but then again only 85 or so guesses have been made to date (at least 12 are mine (i've had the card for four or five days)) so apparently even that is probably too much work for you.

Oh and before olie gets here and trouts you to death, this has been brought up in one form or another in this thread before and the uselessness has been pointed out multiple times.

Please don't let this discourage you from suggesting ideas in the future though.