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[maevey]

As far as I can tell the pass key can be any length, it's used to shuffle the pack and so in theory would be feasable to shuffle a 54 card deck with pass key of longer than 54, although it's unlikely that the pass key will be that long as it would just make it far too hard, well, even harder than it already seems.

As I said, the pass key is used to shuffle the deck and create the deck order from which is found the keystream. The keystream should be the same length or longer than the cipher text. The length of the keystream is determined purely on how many times you go through the process of finding the splitting and resplitting the pack to find the keystream characters.

I hope that answers some of your question, if at all, and that I'm not just rambling.

[locqust]

Actually they reckon for a secure cipher at least 80 characters is needed to encrypt the deck. Anything less will be too easy to break.

this site has been mentioned before, but mentioned here again for ease of use http://www.schneier.com/solitaire.html

Edit: just been looking at it again and the site mentions that as well as never using the same encryption key more than once, it also says to keep messages to about 1,000 characters and to use slang, abbreviations etc.

Has anybody decrypted anything and thought its kinda close to real words? Looking back that it could be abbreviated or in slang but dismissed it? Im thinking along the lines of the morse messages that are being translated in the London forums.

[Stratman]

Sat back today and went over all of this again.
Don't know if this is worth mentioning but I gave more thought to the difference between code and cipher and the fact that Mind Candy (or Garnet to be more precise) is not likely to confuse them.

http://www.techworld.com/security/features/index.cfm?featureid=993

1 The card says 'decode the message and find out who...etc'
2 Garnet's clue (in the email) said 'If you can tell me what the message you deciphered was...etc'
3 Von's clue says 'as for the code, everything you need is there'
I am beginning to think the message to decode is 'If entropy wins...etc'
which will give you a clue/key/deck order to decipher the message 'WBBMC...etc'.
Of course 'If entropy wins...etc' may just be decoded as 'ignore the heat sensitive letters'. But could it be more like a cryptic crossword clue and point to something more?
Whatever...I am sure Garnet knows the difference between code and cipher and there must be some significance to the semantics used on the card and in the clues.
(Ciphers and codes are all new to me...it's sure intriguing to learn about them!)

[padge]

I got my pack of "Bicycle 2000" cards today - no good I'm afraid. The 'significant events' pictures (which we thought might relate to the 2 letter codes in the 108 text) are only on the face cards and aces. So the Bicycle 2000 deck is not the key.

Maybe it IS the iraq most wanted deck that we should be looking at....

[locqust]

Probably a little too topical for MC to use really lol

[modern_hero]

I have an idea. what if they're all in order? the star is referring to the number of hands to be dealt a set of five cards, and when it's done, one of the hands will spell something?

Right, I'm off to deface a set of cards.

Oh, and The pack is a motor brand high quality playing cards pack. No.88 if I'm not mistaken...

(http://www.secretsofholdem.com/item.cfm?item_id=20370)

[myf]

By Jove, you're right about the deck. Motor cards. Where have you been hiding with that information??

[locqust]

[Stratman]

Well spotted!
That is the back design exactly.
I very much doubt they have 'Made in China' on the side - I have order a deck anyway to check them out. They may come new with an unusual deck order, unlikely, but possible.
I suspect that 'Made in China' has been added to the picture on the card, which seems to imply it may well be a clue.
I spent ages going over and over that back design for clues, searching for the actual motorbikes etc...doh!

[modern_hero]

I was just looking at he picture on the first page of the topic, and I couldn't see it properly, so I saved it and enlarged it on the PC, when I saw the motorbike.

It is the same as the motorbike on the pack of cards I keep on my desk. First pack I ever got, But I have the pack number 976, so I just googled "Motor brand High Quality Playing Cards" and bingo.

So yeah, go me. Where did people get 'bicicle' from anyway?

[modern_hero]

So these cards were made specifically for Texas hold'em poker. This has to be some kind of link to the puzzle.

[locqust]

Just been having a quick google for texas hold 'em style encryption process' and trying to eliminate poker sites bragging about their level of security.. anyway came across a site about encryption and people talking about it, they were talking about solitaire cyphers. One thing they suggest is that bigger decks can be purchased (and are used by some casinos, dunno which) instead of the standard decks to increase the security of the cypher.

They also suggested that perhaps writing the message in latin or some other obscure language to help in throwing off people hacking the messages.

Oh and no sign of hold 'em cyphers on the net...

[modern_hero]

It could be possible that the order of the cards doesn't matter, only the order of the letters written on them? two letters per card, (a-kX4+2)X2...

Deal them out to eight people... (8 prominent points on the star on the pack...) ?

[doomsdayred]

Great find modern hero.

For ref here is a more detailed pic

http://www.smokeandpoker.com/images/M10443.jpg

On the top of the pack is a series of letters and numbers and the left side is the brand name.

[donstobbart]

Brilliant find Mordern_hero. And there I was getting told by people that know all about playing cards that it wasn't a real deck.

Anyway, that leaves the key clue to be either Made in china, (depending on the card box) and if entropy wins, outward looks should leave you cold.

Maybe its worth trying to see if the entropy clue is a cryptic clue, like someone suggested earlier? Possibly relating to the disappearing letters in some way other than the fact they disappear.


Don