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[Ramazel]

[Ramazel]

Another remark about the time of death: the coroner seems to rely solely on the key for the time of death. It's quite surprising for a professional given that keys can be hacked. There are methods for determining the time of death, such as forensic entomology, which can't be faked.

[Weefz]

[Uhtoff]

A brief external examination wouldn't have included stripping him off imo, not at the scene.

It's possible that keys are generally so reliable that the coroners don't bother checking for time of death in other ways any more, seems a little odd, but maybe our distinguished coroner is just a little lazy.

imo abdominal stretching implies something within the abdomen causing a stretch, rather than fat on the outside which doesn't really stretch the abdomen (or at least it seems an odd way to describe it). Which leaves us food, fluid, gas, fetus, faeces or blood really, of these the only likely option is gas from putrefaction. I don't know, the other evidence seems to be well against the time of death being other than described (especially the specific mention of livor mortis which I found a couple of sites that said that should have faded by 4 hours or 12 hours at the latest), it's just that the marbling and likely gas release suggest 2 days or so (at least from the textbooks I've found, have asked a pathologist friend, but he hasn't got back to me). Will shut up now and continue to worry about the copper in the liver in my own time!

[Small Geezer]

Aren't we therefore left with the simple deduction that someone spiked his coffee? Or if he took sugar, spiked the sugar so that when he made his own coffee with 2 sugars he added the ceretin himself and subsequently overdosed?

Lots of options, but all point to someone he knew or his cleaners. Possibly someone got to the cleaners?

(please God let it be the cleaners )

[Jakeo]

Or maybe there was something he could only tell us through his death?!?

Cybalisty, you crafty old dog, why did it have to happen this way... WHY!!!

[kizandtango]

we keep mentioning the cleaners, but what do we know about them? Someone email violet asking her if there have been any new cleaners lately, and ask her what company they work for, and what she knows about them?

[Ramazel]

[kizandtango]

Oh yeah....blonde moment there...so...he doesnt have cleaners at home, so what i said is complete rubbish yes...?

*later on that day...*

i mailed anna asking if there was a cleaner for issac's place (you never no, she could have employed one on the sly to hoover when he is out) and asked her if she could get into his place and have a look at his bin contents see if she can find a container for the ceretin....worth a shot i figured !

[Ramazel]

[Weefz]

Edit: Removed quote of same stuff from Anna's website was quoted a minute before me!

So his house would have been cleaned on Thursday. Is that close enough for there to be insufficient dust to trap DNA for testing? Probably not, though I'm not an expert in this by any means.

[duckiemonster]

I thought we were making a connection with the 'cleaners' that V didn't have time to send in to mop up Monica.

Anyone who's still not clear on why the medicy people think Cymballisty was dead longer than 16 hours, don't be afraid to PM me.

I'm working on the copper. Honest.

[sledgecallier]

Cleaners? Who knows? Certainly the place looks to have been cleaned recently but that could either just have been a coincidence that either Cymbalisty was a 'cleaning freak' who kept his place spotless (and/or he had had domestic cleaners in very recently) or that someone cleaned the place up after the 'murder'. (I assume we are ruling out suicide at this point?)

Surely if Cymbalisty had a regular cleaner then they would have been interviewed by the Police as a potential source of information? (Also, assuming they do not have robotic or micro-biotic cleaning 'droids'.

We do know that clean up teams were mentioned in the tape of the Monica Grand murder so it may be that this was also the case here and this is why there is little or no forensic evidence?

Edit... Woo Hoo 300 posts!!! Oh, and by the time I had written all this out the thread had moved on a bit so...

[cassandra]

Liquefactive necrosis is an expected finding after death by cerebral infarction.

Concerning the abdominal stretching, it's possible that the copper in his liver contributed to cirrhosis and ascites.

[duckiemonster]