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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[Puzzle] Silver #238 Riemann
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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Guin
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Antartica
x wrote:
Wait so "Louis De Branges de Bourcia" has already submitted a "Proof" of this hypothesis? ... Well omg. This has to be it.


Ive tried it though as have others so i dont get what we are to do Sad
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:41 pm
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13th labourer
Guest


 		I know somebody must have tried it but if I had this card I might just put :

q.v.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:23 pm
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locqust
Unfettered


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 545
Location: Gloucestershire UK

 		q.v? why?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:38 pm
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pheebs
Guest
locqust wrote:
q.v? why?


i dont know but it doesnt work...

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:42 pm
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Bendover
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 111
Location: San Jose

 		Louis De Branges is the mathematician that solved the Bieberbach Conjecture in 1989. The book I am reading gives the story behind that proof along with his efforts in proving the Riemann Hypothesis. As I read it he is considered somewhat sloppy in his math and in the case of the Bieberbach Conjecture no one was willing to believe he had solved it, and many of the same mathematicians doubt he would solve Riemann. I for one hope he can and has.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:56 pm
Last edited by Bendover on Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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pheebs
Guest


 		i hope so too, and i think it may be a winner.

my only question would be what part of that 41 page document are we supposed to put in the answer box? i dont think i can copy/paste 41 pages!

i guess now its just a waiting game... do we get extra points for waiting? lol

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:17 pm
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jpwelton
Greenhorn

Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Berkshire

 		Is it just me being blind, or is there no-one credited on the card as the author? Obviously sente, von, etc didnt come up with the puzzle of the Riemann Hypothesis, but theres usually at least a 'Guest Artist' or similar credit. I cant find any other cards in my collection without this, although Im far from having them all!!
I beleive that if there was an underlying puzzle there would be a signature on the card from the puzzle architect - I know if Id come up with something this difficult I'd want to taking credit for it!!
This leads me to beleive we are left to sit and wait for a soution to be approved by the Clay Mathematics people.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:15 am
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UKver2.0
Decorated

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 270

 		The authors of cards #012, #15, #25, #52, #82, #153, (#170), #173, #176, #180, #182, #185, #209 are also not credited. I might also be blind so some of them might, but you'll notice that of those listed not all are puzzles created by some non-perplex city classic puzzle creator. So I'm not sure if it really means anything.
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Naomi: and then you’d try to anagram 'shovels'

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:16 am
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BBuck
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Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 184

 		Various people have mentioned that the Riemann Hypothesis has been tested up to several trillion (from Mathworld, it seems that the latest (2004) is the first ten trillion non-trivial zeros). If I remember my maths A-level, this would count as a proof of the Riemann hypothesis for this range, albeit an inelegant one (it's not just Unforum that doesn't like brute force).

Has anyone tried answers based on this approach?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:34 am
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Guin
Unfettered


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Antartica

 		just a few thoughts:

MathWorld tells us:

Quote:
The Riemann hypothesis has thus far resisted all attempts to prove it.
From http://mathworld.wolfram.com/RiemannHypothesis.html if memory serves me well this was the incorrect link sent in the text message.

and
Quote:
(de Branges 1986, 1992, 1994) and in fact claiming to prove the generalized Riemann hypothesis (de Branges 2003, 2004; Boutin 2004), but no actual proofs seem to be present in these papers.
our friend de Branges

de Branges to my knowledge has submitted a possible case before but found a flaw in his calculations and as such I think the following link is his more recent work:

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/2004/040608.DeBranges.Riemann.html

We are told
Quote:
His latest efforts have neither been peer reviewed nor accepted for publication, but Leonard Lipshitz, head of Purdue's mathematics department, said that de Branges' claim should be taken seriously.

"De Branges' work deserves attention from the mathematics community," he said. "It will obviously take time to verify his work, but I hope that anyone with the necessary background will read his paper so that a useful discussion of its merits can follow."


And as before I posted to solve:

Quote:
To solve Riemann's Hypothesis is therefore to prove that all the non-trivial zeroes do lie on this line.
from http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~perry/maths/riemannshypothesis/riemannshypothesis.htm

possible idea then if we where to use de Branges work and verify a prime (say the latest one as mentioned by BBuck would this be fit the bill?

Dont ask me how we woould do it though....

(ive sent de Bragnes an email too asking for a link to the most recent paper - hope he doesnt mind :S)

EDIT: if you are interested the new prime is here - its big - i have dowloaded a file with it from somewhere else before too:

http://www.arsfoodcourt.com/43.txt

This is the other page http://www.isthe.com/chongo/tech/math/prime/m30402457/prime-c-e.html
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:56 am
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Emptynuke
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 		look, i want you all to know something. THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE TO SOLVE. sorry for caps, but it is necesarry that you know that. noone has ever solved it. Even the guy who designed the equation hardly understood it. Basically, what this is saying, is that this is the fourmula to know ALL prime numbers. think about it. ALL OF THEM. Another thing some people dont know about this puzzle, is that, whoever solves this, if they do, will automatcially be the most powerful man on earth. This is the pattern for knowing credit card numbers. so, esentially, they would have all of our money. also, solving this problem would also unmake SOOOO many theories based on prime number calculations. so, even though that may not seem like you would not be the most powerful. think about it....You are the richest man, and you changed the PHYSICAL PROPERTIES OF MATH. So, just consider that when you try and solve it.
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
why is the hardest thing in the world only worth 60 points? when easier ones like arctic are worth like 64???? also, your stupid for thinking there was a real answer under this spoiler.
[/google][/sub][/sup]

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:45 pm
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EvilGenius
Decorated


Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 227
Location: Vancouver

 		thanks gooness that's over!
As one of the people who was trying to exhaust the proofreading business I am glad to see the end of it. Those of you now poo-pooing that effort should remember that we could just have easily been right. It's early days yet to discount anything before trying it. MC's email about the error in the last sentence (thanks to the person who sent that, by the way - I think I was the first to post about that but didn't think to ask them directly; figured that was cheating). Now all we have to do is solve the RH itself Shocked Shocked

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:04 am
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Guin
Unfettered


Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Antartica

 		Re: thanks gooness that's over!
EvilGenius wrote:
As one of the people who was trying to exhaust the proofreading business I am glad to see the end of it. Those of you now poo-pooing that effort should remember that we could just have easily been right.


I have to agree with your sentiment - it seemed very valid and that is why I worked on it. One thing I think that should come out of that particular exercise is MC need to much more rigourous with cards - that aside I still find this card fascinating.

I have also been biting my tongue recently as I have felt there has been a lot of condemnation (not only in this thread but also in Shuffled) about how individauls are approaching the answers to these cards and I think it is slighlty unfair to dismiss anyones ideas unless we have tried and tested all possibilites. We need to work collectively and getting peoples backs up is not going to form a happy community. if you do not agree with an individuals methods let them get on with it - you never know they may be right. IF we discourage certain individuals we may miss an opportunity or even lose a member. Lets all play nice please.

[GuiN gets off soap box]

That all said. I am fascinated to see what MC would do if we disproved the RH Twisted Evil

[EDIT]
is it worth emailing MC and saying - how do we submit a proof that is over the the character count of your entry box? After all de Bragnes proof is something like 44 pages long
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So long and thanks for all the fish! Trout

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:42 am
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UKver2.0
Decorated

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 270
Emptynuke wrote:
look, i want you all to know something. THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE TO SOLVE. sorry for caps, but it is necesarry that you know that. noone has ever solved it. Even the guy who designed the equation hardly understood it. Basically, what this is saying, is that this is the fourmula to know ALL prime numbers. think about it. ALL OF THEM. Another thing some people dont know about this puzzle, is that, whoever solves this, if they do, will automatcially be the most powerful man on earth. This is the pattern for knowing credit card numbers. so, esentially, they would have all of our money. also, solving this problem would also unmake SOOOO many theories based on prime number calculations. so, even though that may not seem like you would not be the most powerful. think about it....You are the richest man, and you changed the PHYSICAL PROPERTIES OF MATH. So, just consider that when you try and solve it.


Nope, you are wrong. The only concern anyone has with Riemann being solved is that, in doing so, some new information about the primes might be unearthed that could lead to a fast method of factoring. Proving that it's true, in itself, doesn't add any new information. The methods used for encryption that involve primes already assume it to be true. Additionally, if taken as fact, The Riemann Hypothesis does not tell you all the prime numbers. Crap example of the day: I have 172 favorite numbers. Someone once Hypothesized that all my favorite numbers fall on the line x=y*2. To prove it you ask me if all my favorite numbers are "even". I say yes! Do you know all of my fovorite numbers? Do you know any? But the hypothesis was that they fall on a certain line and you proved it without knowing any of them. Good job.

Also, any idea that anyone comes up with, no matter how retarded, helps. Saying it can't be done, does not. There's no need for that kind of post in a forum dedicated to solving the card.
_________________
Naomi: We did joke that we’d end up have to go round to your houses with shovels, drive you to the location and tell you to dig.
Andrea: Paint a little X on the ground with spray paint..
Naomi: and then you’d try to anagram 'shovels'

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:17 am
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magicmancraig
Boot


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 25

 		Re: thanks gooness that's over!
Guin wrote:
[EDIT]
is it worth emailing MC and saying - how do we submit a proof that is over the the character count of your entry box? After all de Bragnes proof is something like 44 pages long


I went along this path a while back.I emailed MC stating that De Brages has solved the riemann therory, how would you like me to put it in the box. ect.....

I never got a reply though.... Confused

Someone else should zap them an email and see if they get a reply.

Do you think they didn't answer because I was well of mark with the answer.
Or maybe that I was very close....
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Utterly Perplexed......

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:25 am
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