unforum

[johnny5]

TINAG lives.

[Ehsan]

One of the hardest things an ARG has to do is balance TINAG with the game. It might seem contradictory at first when you say that there is a game but there isn't a game. TINAG has to be prevalent from the game's perspective; that is, the game does not at any stage admit that it is a game. Yet the boundaries have to be clear for the players. I want to know that I'm playing a game at every stage. Now create ingame forums in favor of TINAG and you hurt the game because you just end up confusing lots of people, because you can never admit that it is a game at a meta level...

I'm not playing WIBS because it's not very active on this board. I'm against the idea of an in-game forum being the primary discussion area for a game. I'd rather you use forums sparingly if you need them as part of the story, and let the players form their own discussion groups, be it here or on yahoo groups or wherever, where you can sticky: THIS IS A GAME and get rid of all the whiners crying this is fake.

[rose]

more TINAG

[sidtheduck]

I've played WIBS since the beginning and it has been my first experience with ARGs in general. Personally, I have liked the WIBS forums and the direct interaction with the characters there (Tucker, debunkette, Mom., etc.). It gave the game a much more "real" feeling for me. As I am a newb in the ARG arena, I have nothing else to compare it to. I thought all ARGs were played with an IG forum (although now I have talked to other seasoned players who have informed me that it is not all that common).

It may have been naiveté on my part, but I did not know about the unfiction forums until after I was immersed over in the WIBS forums. I probably would not have found my way over here if there were no posts on the IG forum and thus would have missed out on being introduced to ARGs. The WIBS IG forum made it easy for a first-timer like me to be introduced to the story and contribute to the storyline. I remember there were some early posts linking over to the forums here, but not overtly (if there had been no IG forum, how do newbs find out about unfiction and the forums here?). Like rose said, there have been and are efforts being put forth for unobtrusive ways of letting the public know that it is, in fact, a game. Rowan posted a lengthy "FORUM RULES" topic (a pinned post on every subforum) which had a link to the "Complaints Dept." that included all of the posts showing the connections to WIBS being a game and asking anyone to read that topic if they thought that WIBS was a "hoax". Is it a responsibility of the game to let everyone know that it is a game?

Is it anyone's responsibility to force every visitor to read posts declaring the fictional nature of a website? I think the mods, members, and admin tried very hard to subtly get the point across to new members without posting a header at the top saying "THIS IS A GAME, PEOPLE!!". It may not have been as blatant as some people obviously would like, but people do not have to be as condescending in their posting when they find out it's not "real" either. There were many new people who all thought they were the first people to find out that WIBS is not real. Many were not condescending and posted their findings as fact (which some of us sent PMs to explaining the situtation or responded to their posts in a tactful way). There have been a few, however, who found it their duty to "inform the public that they are being had and should boycott this website outright because it was a waste of their time and should be viewed as a waste of your time as well" (that last bit was paraphrased, not quoted outright). It was those posters with the condescending attitude that bristled a few feathers along the way.

All in all, I quite enjoyed my haunt of the IG forums over there. In viewing the forums here, it seems a little daunting sometimes with the amount of members when compared to the contributors at WIBS. I do see the point of playing ARGs completely in OOG forums. You have less confusion with the whole thing, but the confusion helps to obscure the line between "reality" and "alternate reality" (which, IMHO, makes a better illusion for playing the game in).

I don't mean to get on my high-horse or discount anyone's opinion on the subject (everyone plays differently), I just wanted to share my thoughts on the subject as one who found it enjoyable to be so immersed and connected to the characters through the format of an IG forum. As Mikkel pointed out in the WIBS forums, "This is fun and we just need a little of what Tolkien called 'the willing suspension of disbelief'. How often do you have the chance to, not only read, but BE in a book". I thought the IG forum helped to reinforce the fact that we are immersed as a part of the story, not just simply an outside observer of the tale.

[addlepated]

Sid, I think you make some very excellent points which also underscore some meta conversation people have been having lately about newcomers being intimidated by UF.

The wonderful thing about ARGs is that they have no rules! So ya don't wanna post in the IG forum, don't. Ya don't wanna post on UF, don't! I love that about the genre and ultimately I think imposing self-made restrictions on what we can and can't (or should and shouldn't) do as a community is going to be harmful.

Me personally, I love the TINAG concept. I think this game, which has come right up to the TINAG window and bumped its nose on it, has been lots of fun (although the pacing is tres bizarre and the natives are growing restless with the extreme lack of updates after such an eventful weekend, but that's a different story).

The only time I have self-censored on the WIBS board is when people start bringing up meta issues. I'm sure some great conversations could have been sparked over there, but my personal code of conduct would consider it impolite to call a character false on "his" own board, even in passing.

[rowan]

I'm not gonna get into the whole reason why I'm not too fond of playing on IG boards - it basically comes down to a personal preference. As to why I didn't play more on this one, I've covered that in numerous other posts as well. I just wanted to touch on one question sid asked.

[sidtheduck]

Thank you for your thoughts, Addlepated and Rowan. I did not mean to bring up such a controversial issue. I too think people should play as they will (to each his own, right?). It just seemed that the general consensus that I have heard on the subject is "IG forums = BAD; OOG forums = GOOD". I just wanted to drop my 2 cents in saying that I haven't viewed IG forums as bad (despite the meta conversations, whining manifestos by jaded members finding out it's a game, and the muddledness of all of the posts there).

Plus, I personally like the TINAG experience from WIBS too (although I am by no means an expert on the subject of ARGs). I have enjoyed my time being "deflowered" in the ARG areana by "Who is Benjamin Stove" (despite the mind-numbingly glacial pace at times) and hope to continue playing in the genre. Thank you all for being so helpful to a newb such as myself!!

[johnny5]

/me 's random thoughts follow:

I would think that for a commercial ARG, IG forums are much more desirable for a few reasons.

1. The PMs own/control the content.
This is huge. While it seems they haven't so far, the PMs can control the tone of the forums as well as the content contained within. Owning the content also means that they can archive the content and present it to clients as a "portfolio" without having to ask anyone's permission.

2. Player-character interaction is on public display. It does not require someone having to remember to post their email from a character in order to share the information.

3. As mentioned previously, participation by new members has a lower
barrier to entry. After all, everyone starts as a newbie at an in-game site.

I'm sure there are other reasons. Maybe someone from GMD can expound.

I didn't play "Urns", but I understand the play was similar to WIBS (i.e. played primarily on the IG forum). I think the main reason Heist was played here and not on StolenA3 is that the forum "came up" late and uF had the momentum.

Who knows, the next step might just be in-game chat. This could prevent the problem of a "Oh, sorry. We solved that in chat 5 hours ago and forgot to post" condition and also share the advantages of in-game forums.

To reiterate the comments above, though; In the end, people will play (or not) wherever they feel comfortable.

GMD has done a pretty decent job letting players regulate the "this is a game" discussions leaving characters to contend "hey this is no game, this is my life". I give them Kudos also for attempting to explain obviously out-of-game items in an in-game fashion (e.g. Google ads for WIBS). For a commercial game, that's about as "TINAG" as you're going to get.

[SirQuady]

I'll be making a longer post about this later, but for now, i have to say that the "Complaints Dept." Thread is slowly becoming one of the funnies threads to read, due to the responses from players! i bow before everybody's (including my own) impressive humor

[krispy2]

I'm with Sid about the IG forum. As a first time ARG-player who came into the game almost a month into things, catching up with all the posts and speculation was a daunting task that took me almost 6 hours. If the discussion had been going on here, rather than on the IG board, I probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble & bailed. Not sure why I say that, but i'ts just a feeling. Now that I know the ropes a bit it is no longer an issue & I wouldn't hesitate to play on as many as several sites if that was appropriate. But just wanted to give another newbie's perspective.

[Blue K]

My experience was exactly the same as yours, krispy. I don't think I would have been intrigued enough by the blog and the backstory to search any further. For me, the interaction is a really important part, but I wouldn't have gone looking for it. I wouldn't have know to. Before this, the term ARG held no meaning for me.

Open question for those with ARG experience and are playing WiBS?: Is the experience similar to other games? I'm curious more about the way the OOGrs interact with one another rather than the specific merits of the individual game itself.

Really a good group of folks here...glad I found it.

[MageSteff]

[Blue K]

Thanks for the reply, MageSteff...I appreciate it.

I understand the ups and downs of life on the forums. We've all misread or perhaps written something in a less than clear way that demonstrates just how human we are. I'm sure I'll get my fair share of trout as well.

I guess what I'm trying to get at...when you play a game that doesn't have an IG forum, does it play pretty much the same as one that does have an IG forum? Does the location of the forum have a major impact on how the game is played? Make sense?

[MageSteff]

[kmduke]

Ok be gentle, just thoughts of mine....

I knew WIBS was a game, I first learned of it last week when I first went to the ARGN website. If I had not known it was a game and just stumbled across it I would have been highly suspect due to the nature of the net and would have dug around outside the WIBS realm to see what I could find.

So the entire TINAG/Game I am fine with, I actually enjoyed reading the forums of the WIBS realm until I learned who was behind it.

Once I learned GM was behind the curtain I lost all interest and it, hate to say this, it actually sorta made me mad.

Now hold on before you flame me, I know now ARGs are a sort of viral, a new way for a company to create buzz about their product. ILB was for Halo I have learned, Beast for A.I., etc. and these I am fine with. Entertainment companies expanding the realm of their creations, creating more mythology and back story to draw you deeper in. Those seem fine to me, but GM promoting their ethanol burning vehicles?

As I said I lost all interest and was curious if this was felt by any others? I'm at a lost to explain it, perhaps big business but Microsoft is a pretty big fish. Perhaps because its for a car and I live without one by choice, but then I live without an Xbox and yet am still intrigued by ILB. Not sure why but for some reason to me knowing GM was behind this killed it for me, did it affect any of you?