Return to Unfiction unforum
 a.r.g.b.b 
FAQ FAQ   Search Search 
 
Welcome!
New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.
Website Restoration Project
This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.
Announcements
This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.
This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.
  

The time now is Fri Nov 15, 2024 5:09 pm
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)		 View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum
Calendar
 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
PM KNOW THY AUDIENCE!
Moderators: imbri, ndemeter
View previous topicView next topic
Page 1 of 1 [10 Posts]  
Author Message
MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

 		PM KNOW THY AUDIENCE!
It happened again… Another game by an inexperienced PM who had never sat behind the scenes on an ARG, nor was he someone who was known around the ARG community. I wonder which of the games he played.

His wasn't even a game I was playing… But… I was contacted by several of the newer faces around unFiction. Because they needed my help, they didn't know anyone else who lived in the same state as the place for the live drop. Now, I had taken a brief look at the game and really, from what I had seen of it, it didn't jump out and cry, "Play me!" With new games from known PM commodities, I just didn't have time to waste on a game with a questionable future. I hate the frustration that comes from a PM who hasn't done his homework. Please note: I have been a major PM behind a game (OK it was Orbital Colony, but I hadn't done much PMing before that - just a character here and a few bits of information there), so I do know something of which I speak, and I could see some places of potential pitfalls...

There were technical problems with pulling a file off an ftp server within a given 5 minute window. It took a week to line up another attempt at it. Given a second chance at it, the "character showed up 45 minutes early, and the ftp files were not able to be extracted. Testing to see if the files would become available for the next 90 minutes were unsuccessful. The game ground to a halt.

Continuous hints to go to a specific person in a specific city were ambiguous at best. Player frustration built as we asked for information to be e-mailed to us from the characters, as no one could make the trip to Ft. Myers. The PM failed to pay attention to the growing frustration in his players… Rather his response was "why aren't you coming to Ft. Myers like I asked?"

When the Live Drop happened the PM wanted the Player to go to yet ANOTHER location for information and clues.

Verdict? A new PM who has not done his homework on his audience. A new PM who doesn't know how to use his technology. A new PM who hasn't learned how to get past minor obstacles. A new PM who doesn't value the Players' time.

Players' rule of good behavior: Don't piss off the Boss of the PM by showing up uninvited to the PMs work place. If the PM gets fired for goofing off, they won't be able to afford to make a game, plus they will have to turn their attention to a job search to find a new job. No one wants that.

Given that players live all over the world, PMs' need to be flexible in how to present information. If you want to have a live drop, go to where the player lives if you can, or find an ARG community member who can leave the drop for you. Do not expect that players will make a long trip early in your game.
They don't know who you are, they don't know if the information you will leave them will be worth their time. If your game is in a holding pattern because the information can't be picked up live, that is due to poor PM planning and PM inflexibility, and not Player fault.

If the players are not able to pick up some information live, then please… please use another method to send the information out. Postal mail, e-mail, telephone calls… do not force a specific mode of interaction on the players. They are not going to be happy spending $54 in gas plus related expenses (meals etc.) if they clues you give them are weak ones that do little to move the game forward.

Should a player manage to make a live drop, please do not ask the player to go to a second location with you. Have all your material (photos, discs, papers) ready and available. The player just spent a long time traveling to meet you, they may not have the time to run a gauntlet – they may only have 5 minutes to pick up the package and need to leave to get home.

I made the mistake of wanting to help new players, even though my spidey sense was saying the game I was involved in was on the fast track to Implosion. But my personal mantra has always been "so what am I doing to make things better?" To help the new players, several on their first ARG from the beginning, I drove 5 hours round trip on a day when gasoline in the area had just went up over $3. I met a young man who was not well prepared and not really able to think on his feet. I tried to make things better… The game… I'm afraid the game is still going to Implode.

I'm sorry Keith, I really am. Ask for help next time, and do your homework on presentation before you try again. The mistakes you have made so far, are all really very preventable. But it means you have to pay attention to your players, you have to respect their time, and you need to learn how to be more flexible. This isn't a table top pen and paper game, don't treat it like one.
_________________
Magesteff
A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:46 am
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
Rolerbe
Unfettered


Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 330
Location: North America

 		Re: PM KNOW THY AUDIENCE!
MageSteff wrote:
Ask for help next time, and do your homework on presentation before you try again. The mistakes you have made so far, are all really very preventable.


Along the lines that Rose suggested a bit ago, re an email suggesting help; one thing that may be worth thinking about re Rose's idea would be to send the suggested email and include a backdoor mechanism whereby a failing PM could offer to pass the torch for the creation s/he no longer has the energy for on to some of those here who might have the interest in carrying on, rather than having all suffer through yet another implosion.

There was also some discussion regarding game previews. I know it breaks, TINAG, but this aspect was really perhaps a novelty of the Beast. As more offerings come out, players will want to know where to best spend their time, based on their individual game type preferences. Should Unfiction start up a special 'preview' area? In addition to the review, which should help recruit the initial player base faster, this would also serve to ensure that the PM's have thought it out past the first 5 minutes of play...
_________________
Failure isn't the worst thing in the world. Repeatedly trying really, really hard, then failing, now that's something.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:46 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

 		Re: PM KNOW THY AUDIENCE!
Rolerbe wrote:
MageSteff wrote:
Ask for help next time, and do your homework on presentation before you try again. The mistakes you have made so far, are all really very preventable.


Along the lines that Rose suggested a bit ago, re an email suggesting help; one thing that may be worth thinking about re Rose's idea would be to send the suggested email and include a backdoor mechanism whereby a failing PM could offer to pass the torch for the creation s/he no longer has the energy for on to some of those here who might have the interest in carrying on, rather than having all suffer through yet another implosion.

There was also some discussion regarding game previews. I know it breaks, TINAG, but this aspect was really perhaps a novelty of the Beast. As more offerings come out, players will want to know where to best spend their time, based on their individual game type preferences. Should Unfiction start up a special 'preview' area? In addition to the review, which should help recruit the initial player base faster, this would also serve to ensure that the PM's have thought it out past the first 5 minutes of play...


Well, we have the Puppetmaster Tutorial, the mention about people willing to act as mentors, the weekly PM chat that imbri is hosting... But apparently the ones who NEED that help the most are usually the ones who apparently feel they don't need it. Or they just don't bother to read anything and just barrel ahead with it.
_________________
Magesteff
A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:08 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
rowan
Unfictologist

Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 1966

 		But in order for it to work, the PM has to be willing to accept help. I didn't play this game, and the only thing I know about it has been from Magesteff's posts. But take into consideration this from Mage:
Magesteff wrote:
Continuous hints to go to a specific person in a specific city were ambiguous at best. Player frustration built as we asked for information to be e-mailed to us from the characters, as no one could make the trip to Ft. Myers. The PM failed to pay attention to the growing frustration in his players… Rather his response was "why aren't you coming to Ft. Myers like I asked?"
It seems to me that the PM was given a very easy out so that the game could progress. Instead of taking it, the PM stubbornly clung to the idea of a "live event" when there were no active players in the area. It wouldn't suprise me in the slighest that if OOG help was offered to this PM, that they would just as stubbornly cling to their original ideas and not accept any help from strangers.
_________________
follow @arg_deaddrop on twitter

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:30 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
SirQuady
Unfettered


Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 576
rowan72 wrote:
Instead of taking it, the PM stubbornly clung to the idea of a "live event" when there were no active players in the area.


As a side note, something like this is really good at totally smashing TINAG to shambles too. (ignoring the obvious fact that an implosion destroys TINAG with the power of the Death Star's superlaser, having a stubborn character who can't even be creative is defidently annoying)
_________________
There once was a [person] from [place]
Whose [body part] was [special case].
When [event] would occur,
It would cause [him or her]
To violate [law of time/space].

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:01 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
colin
Entrenched

Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 810
Location: Australia

 		Re: PM KNOW THY AUDIENCE!
MageSteff wrote:
Now, I had taken a brief look at the game and really, from what I had seen of it, it didn't jump out and cry, "Play me!" With new games from known PM commodities, I just didn't have time to waste on a game with a questionable future. I hate the frustration that comes from a PM who hasn't done his homework...

There were technical problems with pulling a file off an ftp server within a given 5 minute window. It took a week to line up another attempt at it. Given a second chance at it, the "character showed up 45 minutes early, and the ftp files were not able to be extracted. Testing to see if the files would become available for the next 90 minutes were unsuccessful. The game ground to a halt.

Continuous hints to go to a specific person in a specific city were ambiguous at best. Player frustration built as we asked for information to be e-mailed to us from the characters, as no one could make the trip to Ft. Myers. The PM failed to pay attention to the growing frustration in his players? Rather his response was "why aren't you coming to Ft. Myers like I asked?"


...So at this point you stopped playing, Right?

At this point everyone should be aware there is a lot of crap flying around, so stop supporting it. 'vote with your feat' walk away from the game.

Also this community has heaps of help for new PMs. As Magesteff said
Quote:
But apparently the ones who NEED that help the most are usually the ones who apparently feel they don't need it. Or they just don't bother to read anything and just barrel ahead with it.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Our responsibility to these people is limited. If they haven't done any research, it's not worth trying to help them or fix this 'problem'.

Prevention is better than cure, perhaps, don't play the game and you can't get burned.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:28 pm
 View user's profile MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
Puppy_Zwolle
Entrenched


Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 969
Location: Not Zwolle anymore. really no kiddin'

 		Re: PM KNOW THY AUDIENCE!
MageSteff wrote:
I'm sorry Keith, I really am.

Though your point about PM's (in general and specific) is valid, why is it on the forum as a personal message? Talking about breaking TINAG. I understand your frustration but venting it like this is also 'not done'. Although this is OOG, this part should be handled behind closed doors.

Mind you, I'm really glad I got to read this. The rest of your 'tale of events' should be a valuable lesson. Nicely written also. Hope you feel better now and that the high bloodpressure has subsided a bit.

Just my view on it and like my mom keeps telling me: "Shut it. What do you know?"
_________________
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." -Einstein

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:30 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

 		Re: PM KNOW THY AUDIENCE!
colin wrote:


...So at this point you stopped playing, Right?....

Prevention is better than cure, perhaps, don't play the game and you can't get burned.


LOL, Colin I was never really actively playing. Several of the people who were playing asked for my help. I was doing it more to support my fellow Players than the PM. Still, the PM was obviously reading the forums as the note I got was written to my nick specifically, and I was very hard on the PM in the forums about the game heading south. You would have thought this would have clued him in that he needed to have something interesting for me when I go tthere.... Smile
_________________
Magesteff
A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:18 am
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
GuyP
Unfettered


Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 584
Location: London, UK

 		I think it's that old saw about how when you're incompetent, your problems are compounded by you inability to recognise your own shortcomings. Or to put it another way:
Quote:
When people are incompetent in
the strategies they adopt to achieve success and satisfaction, they
suffer a dual burden: Not only do they reach erroneous conclusions
and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of
the ability to realize it.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:20 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
Puppy_Zwolle
Entrenched


Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 969
Location: Not Zwolle anymore. really no kiddin'

 		"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."

-Sun Tzu
Chinese General and Author, b.500 BC
_________________
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." -Einstein

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:49 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 1 [10 Posts]  
View previous topicView next topic
 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group