unforum

[GasparLewis]

Hey, everybody!

How are you?

This isn't solved yet, so don't let it fall down the page like it is!

Thank you!

So I can add something worthwhile: another Sunday is on the way, and hopefully donxkey can make it this time. Of course, that's no reason to sit and wait.

MOVE OUT, FOLKS!

[Flashman9]

New Info?

[Loric]

Welcome!

[chimera245]

One thing that hasn't been posted yet.

A friend of mine found that in and around the Trafalgar period, a Union Flag at the top of the mizzen mast meant a firing instruction.

See

http://website.lineone.net/~d.bolton/Misc/fightins.htm


I don't know if that counts for anything, and I haven't had chance to delve deaper but there is a lot on that site.

[Guin]

Book

[Guin]

okay these are the pages - no real use in total honesty - however

I found some stuff on the net that is for the dutch equivelent and it seems that the ones we have in this list are the same - so the 0 = 0 and the x = x still - but no conclusive answers

so heres the scan

[Guin]

okay i have started to really put something together

So far i have the following:

left = ? ? ? ? W(?) 1 2
Middle = Union Jack ? 0 ? 1 6 8 ? ? 6 ? 2 0 ?
right = ? 2 ? ? 6 2 4(?) ? ? 1 ? ?

Okay a few holes

as i seem to find numbers for the ones i have found - ive verified them on several sites - i am unsure about the W on the left mast and the 4 on the right mast as its the wrong way - possible error?

I ahve a few things i want to follow up and will post an update asap

Okay nothing new so ignore me bfore i get trouted

[Guin]

have also found this

http://www.royal-signals.org.uk/flagwaving.php

Alas it is not a good scan but im searching for the original

[Warlord]

[oliverkeers13]

Cough

[doublecross]

Even if we accept interpretations for flags from any sources that have them, there are still some that are completely unidentified, I think.

There are:
the burgee (K-shaped flag) with the left half white and the right half red,
the rectangular all-white flag (surrender?),
the burgee that goes red, white, blue,
the burgee with the top half white and the bottom half red
the pennant that is black and white stripes

Have these been found anywhere?

[echidna]

[jlocke]

caveat: i don't have this card and therefore all the information that i have from it comes from the low-res scans.

i agree with whoever said that this is most likely a numeric code, with the flags all being from different systems so as to throughrouly foul our progress. i also think that in the end this is going to be a message, or question rather, relayed in Popham's code. my reasoning is probably too simplistic, but Popham's codes used three digit numbers to convey set terms, and there are 33 flags in our puzzle.

the problem is not only finding all the flags, it's finding the numeric value of them. to further complicate things i've come across flag systems where the number is simply calculated based on the colour pattern (i'm pretty sure that i read that in one of the links from this topic, but i'm away from my home computer so i can't check).

loric mentioned a naval officer named Kempenfelt that designed the 28 flag system, and i was able to find this this from the maritime museum:

Experimental signal book of the Kempenfelt period, c.1775-82 (TUN/4)

i've requested several books regarding old maritime signal flags from my local university as well as a microfilm copy of Popham's "Telegraphic Signals of Marine Vocabulary" -- i'll relay any useful information that i glean from these texts.

(if i've unwittingly repeated any information, my apologies)

[trevor_jarvis]

[GasparLewis]

Kempenfelt I like a whole lot, and would have been an excellent cvard in its own right, but it doesn't give any definitions to any of the five flags we have no definition for. In fact, it only looks like there's one flag in common between the two.

Of course, it does yield new meanings for flags we already have, but the flag-pairing necessity of the system makes me doubt its worth to the puzzle. But, better to be safe.

And, since we haven't had any new systems since, I'm digging out the old roster from Page 1:

1- ICS 5/ R37
2- ???
3- MAR 3R (repeat itself?!) / R37
4- ???
5- ICS W / R37 B / KEM 14
6- ICS X / HOW 1 / POP 1 / R37 2
7- ICS P / HOW 2 / POP 2 / R37 0
8- USN 0 / R37 No
9- ICS 3 / R37
10- POP 6/ HOW 6/ R37 4
11- POP 8/ HOW 8
12- ???
13- ???
14- R37 K
15- HOW 4
16- USN Turn
17- ???

ICS = Internation Code Signals
USN = U.S. Navy
POP = Popham
HOW = Howe
MAR = Marryat
R37 = Royal Navy, 1937
KEM = Kempenfelt
??? = Currently Unknown

Column 1: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 = 7 total
Column 2: 4,6,8,9,6,10,11,12,9,10,13,7,8,2 = 14 total
Column 3: 4,7,14,17,10,7,15,14,16,6,14,13 = 12 total

[? denotes a flag without any sort of known meaning at the given time]
[! denotes a flag with a meaning that is unidentified or very confusing]

L: (5/!) ? (!/!) ? (W/B/14) (X/1/2) (P/2/0)
M: UK ? (X/1/2) (0/No) (3/!) (X/1/2) (6/4) 8 ? 3 (6/4) ? (P/2/0) (0/No) ?
R: ? (P/2/0) K ? 6 (P/2/0) 4 K Turn (X/1/2) K ?