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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[PUZZLE] #251 - Silver - The Thirteenth Labour - READ POST#1
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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chimera245
Decorated

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 209

Hi,

An explanation on Borked for those that need to know - or want to anyway.

I upgraded drivers on the Network Card in the Web Server this morning as part of the maintenance downtime (on recommendation).

I did this the 'safe' way - by Uninstalling the Card, and installing afresh. All went well.

What I forgot is that this resets the NET CONFIG settings, particularly the /autodisconnect setting. This defaults to some stupidly high number - not the 1 minute I normally have it set to.

Under these circumstances the Web Server is perpetually clogged with connections which do not auto disconnect.

The Web Server will be going down in a couple of hours and this will be rectified.

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:00 am
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marky1124
Boot

Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 31

Laughing Thanks for the explanation of Borked


Has there been any change to the retry timings with the v1.2.0 client? It may be purely congestion and luck but my observation is that my v1.1.1 clients appear to fight their way through to the server whereas the v1.2.0 clients don't appear to get through so easily.

For instance I have four v1.2.0 clients that have been stalled for 4 hours and during that time one of my v1.1.1 clients has received and processed 14 units from the server.

Cheers,
Mark

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:59 am
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chimera245
Decorated

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 209

There is an element of that unfortunately.

The process of getting WU's is a bit longer with 1_2_0 - it needs to get 10 not one, and thus - if the server is laggy as all hell due to the 1_1_1 load, it may not get it's units before the timeout expires.

The moral of this story is to get people OFF 1_1_1 as fast as we can.

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:21 am
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poozleModerator
Entrenched

Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 1090

I can understand this, but earlier my computer managed to get 10 WUs after about 3 or 4 hours, but then it just refused to do anything, it had all my stats and everything, said commencing processing and stopped.

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 11:17 am
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marky1124
Boot

Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 31

Client retry too aggressive?

Hi Chimera,

I've just spent a couple of minutes looking at the network trace of one of the clients. I think the reason that your server is dying is due to the aggressive retries of the clients. The v1.2.0 client appears to be waiting a random number of seconds, seemingly between 1 and 10, before trying again. I suspect that's just too aggressive for the server. It also seems as though the client is giving up on the server too quickly, a usual TCP connection timeout is in the order of 3 minutes. The client appears to be retrying in less than 10 seconds. Does the client network code use a very short timer?

I think the clients should be more patient with the server, and in addition when they do decide to back off they should incrementally increase the amount of time they wait before retrying.

From what I can see at the moment it would appear that the clients as a whole are unwittingly creating a SYN flood denial-of-service attack on your server.

My observations are based on using strace & tcpdump of a client running under Mono on Linux, and so perhaps my view is not representative of true PC clients. Also of course my opinions are based on pure conjecture and assumption on the part of what the code is doing. If you want to PM me any network code to look at I'd be happy to see if I can make any useful suggestions.

Are you able to tell how many clients are at v1.1.1 and how many are now at v1.2.0?

Cheers,
Mark

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 11:36 am
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gurupidal
Boot

Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 13

A slightly different point here.
Could we have already solved the puzzle with some of the WU we have gone through? or do we have to continue till 100%.

I had been looking around on the net and started adapting a program which did a similar thing, but I think it was 32/12/8 and the programmer had disabled the correct key as the key was found in about the second guess.
I think the object was to find out how many keys could be found in 30 secs or something.

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 1:28 pm
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QBKooky
Decorated


Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 281

gurupidal wrote:
Could we have already solved the puzzle with some of the WU we have gone through? or do we have to continue till 100%.
This question has been asked in several different forms, and my understanding is that, hopefully, no, we will reach the correct solution before 100%.

Right now any likely or possible keys the client comes up with (that it recognizes as being, I'd suppose, somewhat decoded) are being sent to the server. We just have to wait until one of those is the right one. OR, it is possible that we will get to 100% and not have found the key, because right now we are only testing a certain range of alphabetic (or perhaps alphanumeric) keys.

If the key contains characters not in that range, then we might have to get to 100%, shift the client to test a new range, and try again. Hopefully that won't happen though. (And as someone pointed out earlier, mathematically we don't waste any time by testing the more likely characters first).
_________________
A clue!

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 1:50 pm
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baf
Boot

Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 46

You can think of it as like being in a warehouse full of candy boxes, all but one of them empty. Lacking any other clues about which box has the candy in it, we're just systematically examining them all. When the server says that 6% of the work units have been processed, that's like saying we've looked inside 6% of the boxes in the warehouse and still haven't found the candy.

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:31 pm
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Dranioth
Veteran


Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 92

What kind of sick fiend would only fill up one box of candy in an entire warehouse?

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:32 pm
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jazzychad
Veteran

Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 74

Dranioth wrote:
What kind of sick fiend would only fill up one box of candy in an entire warehouse?


Mind Candy Wink

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:06 pm
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Frenzy
Boot

Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Canada

If the 1_1_1 clients are causing the problem, is there no way of stopping them? My guess is that people are just unaware that there's an upgrade. Once they stopped working, people might go investigate and find the 1_2_0 upgrade.

I'm also guessing there's no way to alert 1_1_1 users of the new version thru their existing clients (like "Error - please upgrade to 1_2_0"), but what about a mass message to all registered emails?

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:44 pm
Last edited by Frenzy on Mon May 15, 2006 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Futuro
Greenhorn

Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 7
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

jazzychad wrote:
Dranioth wrote:
What kind of sick fiend would only fill up one box of candy in an entire warehouse?


Mind Candy Wink


nice answer !

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:46 pm
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chimera245
Decorated

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 209

Re: Client retry too aggressive?

marky1124 wrote:
Are you able to tell how many clients are at v1.1.1 and how many are now at v1.2.0?


There are currently 800 odd active 1_1_1 clients. It is this that is the real trouble at the moment. There are 52 1_2_0 client who have successfully got batches assigned to them.

BTW the retry numbers you quoted are spot on (1-10seconds) and are probably too agressive - I'll tune this down in 1_2_1, but the timeout on the WS Call is 3 minutes. The problem is there is so much 1_1_1 traffic that the Web Server is rejecting the 1_2_0 call immediately.

New 1_1_1 clients will no longer validate - but the existing ones will continue running indefinitely until the operators turn them off. The sooner they are off - the better it will be for everybody.

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:47 pm
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Flynn
Decorated


Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 240
Location: UK

Re: Client retry too aggressive?

chimera245 wrote:
The sooner they are off - the better it will be for everybody.


Mine will go tomorrow - if it wasn't for ?!**!&? glorified plumbers they would have gone today Evil or Very Mad

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:53 pm
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Sasuntsi Davit
Unfettered


Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 352
Location: London, UK : Yerevan, Armenia

Yeah I noticed the 10 second thing yesterday when I saw that the clients were swapping ports about every 10 seconds and thought that it was a bit weird. Hopefully people will upgrade soon enough so we can do some serious number crunching...
_________________
Sasuntsi Davitł
*Fake kloo inserter guy*


PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:56 pm
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