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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Is The Lost Experience really an ARG?
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Phaedra
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Puppy_Zwolle wrote:
The word Experience is implying the 'decision' about what it is, AR(G or E), is with the one immersed in it.


I don't see how the word "Experience" implies that.

Clearly the decision as to the possible levels/types of interaction and the influence players can have on the plot, as per kona's definition, rests with the makers, not the players.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:34 am
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imbriModerator
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colin wrote:
Something I forgot to post earlier. As a footnote to this thread: The Lost Experience never marketed its self as an ARG


Mike Benson, ABC marketing wrote:

"It's more than a new Web site launching," he said, trying to explain the Experience without giving anything away. "You're gonna start hearing things and seeing things. We're hoping that people stumble* upon a variety of aspects and then start sharing online. The first real, substantial clue will be placed in Lost on [tonight's] episode. It's important that, if you want to get engaged by this, there's more than one clue that will be in the show. You really need to watch the program from top to bottom. We [have] a variety of media platforms that will be involved. It's bigger than just launching a Web site."
...

What we've done is taken the show, Damon and Carlton and a couple of their writers developed this whole storyline. We have taken that storyline and executed it in a variety of ways on multiple platforms. Whether it be online, on air, or wherever this might be, we've taken this story and broken it into a lot of different puzzle pieces, and we're hiding those puzzle pieces all over the world.

What we're hoping will happen is a couple of different things. Number one, fans of the show, people who are enjoying the program, people who enjoy solving a good mystery, will kind of play along with us. It's not a game or a promotion or contest, per se. It really is a mystery that you have to solve. It's a story that you put together. What we're hoping is that fans of the show participate, find the clues and content that's out there, and start piecing the story together. We're hoping that a global community comes together. Like the show, maybe there'll be some speculation as to what this whole story leads to. We're hoping that people will enjoy it, and that fans of the show will share it with non-fans and so we can continue to develop the audience for Lost.

This is a very non-traditional marketing venture for us. It really is what I would consider a hybrid between marketing and content development. When you look at what it is that we're doing, we're not trying to sell the show. What we're trying to do is find new ways to get people either more engaged or newly engaged in the program. And that's really where the marketing aspect comes in.


Um, I don't know how much more "this is an ARG" you can get without saying "this is an ARG". Remember, the vast majority of people do not know what an ARG is, they're not going to use that term. Additionally, some people consider ARG to be somewhat negative as it's associated with viral marketing and whatnot.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:16 pm
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konamouse
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:25 pm
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Phaedra
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imbri wrote:
Um, I don't know how much more "this is an ARG" you can get without saying "this is an ARG". Remember, the vast majority of people do not know what an ARG is, they're not going to use that term. Additionally, some people consider ARG to be somewhat negative as it's associated with viral marketing and whatnot.


Well, to play devil's advocate, if we accept that to be an ARG it needs some sort of interaction, I don't see anything about actual interaction here.

I see a lot about multi-platform storytelling:

Mike Benson, ABC marketing wrote:
"You really need to watch the program from top to bottom. We [have] a variety of media platforms that will be involved. It's bigger than just launching a Web site."... Whether it be online, on air, or wherever this might be, we've taken this story and broken it into a lot of different puzzle pieces, and we're hiding those puzzle pieces all over the world.


But does "multi-platform storytelling" always equal "ARG"? Personally speaking, if there is no interaction, it's hard for me to consider it an ARG.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:37 pm
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catherwood
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Mike Benson, ABC marketing wrote:
It's not a game or a promotion or contest, per se. It really is a mystery that you have to solve. It's a story that you put together.

I thought that's all The Beast ever was. (I didn't play it, but I thought that's how its creators described it.)

I already posted here, but this reinforces the evidence. Yes, it's an ARG, but for various minor reasons it seems to not be living up to an imaginary yardstick for what a GOOD one should be like. The Lost Experience is fitting the loose definition of ARG as well as being exactly what it was promoted to be, whether they use our labels or not.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:36 pm
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Phaedra
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yanka wrote:
Piecing together a storyline is all nice and fine, but what really seems to get players addicted are the people - what got them to this point in their life? what will happen to them next? what do they do on a daily basis? what makes them tick? what makes them hurt? Take the show itself, for example: there are all of these emotional strings being pulled as we watch people's backstories, and we understand why they do what they do on the island because we glimpsed into their lives - we feel that we know them; we identify with them. We can't wait to see what will happen to them because we got attached.


I vote someone bases a character on yanka. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:45 pm
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Puppy_Zwolle
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 		I concede on the Experience thing. It is to good a term to mess with.
Phaedra wrote:
But does "multi-platform storytelling" always equal "ARG"? Personally speaking, if there is no interaction, it's hard for me to consider it an ARG.
Game does imply interaction of a sort. I like ARE. Could we agree on Are being a thing like ARG with very limited interaction? You can not deny it sure looks like an ARG.... well some can.

But then we are rehashing what the point was anyway.
konamouse, you are right. Right you are. It makes perfect sense now we chewed on it for a while. At least to me.

We ARE not playing. We ARE living it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:10 pm
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yanka
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Phaedra wrote:
I vote someone bases a character on yanka. Smile

Ooh, can that character please be a theoretical physicist that suddenly comes into a large inheritance and buys one of those pretty lofts on the upper east side?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:06 pm
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colin
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imbri wrote:
Um, I don't know how much more "this is an ARG" you can get without saying "this is an ARG". Remember, the vast majority of people do not know what an ARG is, they're not going to use that term. Additionally, some people consider ARG to be somewhat negative as it's associated with viral marketing and whatnot.
probably should have explained further, but, you know, I don't use many words. While all the hype for it has basically spelt out ARG, they have not used that tag.

There could be several reasons that the tag is not being used, because it's seen negatively, because it has no value to the general public. Or because they don't want to meet what the tag entails. As much as the decription from Mike Benson screams ARG there is a lot of baggage around the tag. people are going to hold it to a mish-mash of standards; does it have X websites; is it using IM; can I screw with the story.

So while there is no problem asking and answering the question 'Is this an ARG?' it would be unfair to say The Lost Experience is Good or Bad because it does/doesn't meet the ARG tag.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:39 pm
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Phaedra
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colin wrote:
So while there is no problem asking and answering the question 'Is this an ARG?' it would be unfair to say The Lost Experience is Good or Bad because it does/doesn't meet the ARG tag.


I completely agree:

It's not fair to try to force all online storytelling into the rubric "ARG=good Not-ARG=bad." Daughters of Freya, for example, was quite good. But it was not an ARG. I love Strindberg + Helium to death, but it is not an ARG. With works that use multiple platforms, or feature, say, weekly "update" emails from a character (but no actual two-way interaction) the line gets harder to draw, obviously, which is why there are so many threads in this section about it.

But "Is it good?" and "Is it an ARG?" are separate questions from "Is it a good ARG?"

And I think people in this thread have been trying to answer all three questions without necessarily treating them as different.

So: is it good? Are people having fun? Are they finding it worth the time and effort they're putting into it?

If so, then it's good, regardless of whether it's an ARG.

Is it an ARG? I think the closest to agreement we're all ever going to come on that question is that it is definitely ARGish. (I mean, if I recall correctly, Ehsan doesn't consider ILB an ARG, yes? Smile )

Is it a good ARG? It's sounding, from what I'm hearing about the characters, the pacing, and so forth, as if it is not that good of an ARG. Maybe this is because it's failing at some aspects of being an ARG, or because it's not an ARG, or most potentially disastrous, because it doesn't know what it's trying to be.

But if it's not, holding it to the expectations we have for ARGs is causing us to judge it by standards it can't -- and is not trying to -- meet.

Maybe for now, it's best just to judge it as an experience -- not in any technical sense -- and after it's over, after we've all seen its scope and shape and have a better idea what it's trying to be, those so inclined can try to decide whether it was an ARG, and whether it was a good ARG.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:58 pm
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krystyn
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:09 pm
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Puppy_Zwolle
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 		Did I mention I love ARE?

The SDE also sounds great, and I haven't heard the band yet. Wink


Just hit me: If a 'thing' is an ARG or a ARE or even something else may be determined by the maker/PM, it will almost never be named that in public by that person as such. Saying that your 'thing' is any of those would be breaking TINAG (and even an ARE has that I guess as it really isn't Wink )

Naming a 'thing' is therefore the job of the audience. The PM does not have to agree, it is merely a point of view of the audience. That's also what makes ARE a great term, it states how the audience views it.

And indeed, wether it is good or bad... Lets just wait till 6-6 2006 has passed Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:25 am
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imbriModerator
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 		ARE?!

WTF?!

Honestly.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:24 pm
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MageSteff
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imbri wrote:
ARE?!

WTF?!

Honestly.


Alternate Reality Experience (or Experiment, your choice Imbri!) Very Happy

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:02 pm
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imbriModerator
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MageSteff wrote:
Alternate Reality Experience (or Experiment, your choice Imbri!) Very Happy


hmmm, my choice?

What about Alternate Reality Excrement because it's for all the shit we don't want to call an Alternate Reality Game. You know, like all the Struggling Alternate Reality Somethings or SARS (not to be confused with the actual illness, but just about as deadly because they implode a lot).

Phaedra posited that ARGs need some sort of interaction and the Lost Experience doesn't contain interaction and so that might be why it's an ARE and not an ARG. There might be some merit to that point and it makes me think of ARGs that are more puzzles than stories. We've called them Puzzle Trails in the past, but some of them really do present a bit of an alternate reality, so perhaps they're Puzzling Alternate Realities or PAR.

I don't think that anyone here would argue that the Beast was art. However, some might argue that it was ART or Alternate Reality - The First. But as it contained very little in the way of direct individual interaction (nothing until the Mike Royal incident 2.5 months into the game or so) perhaps it really just was... or just are.. err, is more ARE than ARG.

But, really, this is nothing more than a FART - F$#king Alternate Reality Tussle

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:19 pm
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