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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
#225 - Silver - [IVY SET] - Broadside
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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Bendover
Veteran


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 111
Location: San Jose

First off, Take a deep breath, It is a game. The reason an out and out answer isn't posted is that some people like to solve it on their own and a spoilered answer is too tempting for them. If you look through the thread calmly and with your mind open, it will be obvious what the answer is. There have been so many clues given and the answer location has been pointed out in the thread, so you can find it, Please try. For all the others that think it is life or death, here is a spoilered answer
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
http://www.nelson-society.org.uk/html/body_england_expects.htm
Read it carefully. I hope I haven't offended anyone, that was not my intention Smile

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:04 am
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doublecross
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 588
Location: London, UK

cecilbdemented, I hope you are going demented because you don't have the card and want the answer confirmed. It would be a pity if you thought that card-solving should be a clinical exercise of buying the cards, looking up the answers on these boards, and typing them in. If you have the card and can't be bothered to think about it, or don't have it and want a simple yes or no, then PM somebody for the answer.
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xx

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:36 am
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cecilbdemented
Boot


Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Three feet to your left. No, your other left

No, I will help you.

Finally got it thanks to Guin (via PM). So, now, because I'm a giver and firm believer that, when it comes to ARG's, it's "live together, die alone," I do hereby announce that I will just give you the answer, straight up, if you PM me. All for One, One for All.

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 5:14 pm
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adesignforlife
Greenhorn

Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Edinburgh

Like so many others, can't believe how obvious this is with hindsight. Thanks for all the pointers, guys.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:33 pm
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unrealt87
Boot


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 66
Location: Guildford!

Just in case the hints aren't too obvious...

Here's a little visual clue that the royal navy have kindly offered to help along those truly baffled by this card...
(Picture courtesy of Daily Express)
england expects.png
 Description   Royal Navy Lends a Hand To Stuck Perplexers
 Filesize   1.24MB
 Viewed   414 Time(s)

england expects.png

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"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes..." - G.I.T.S: S.A.C.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:36 pm
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ginfeatures
Kilroy

Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 1

Meaning in the Flags?

Okay, now that we've all managed to find the answer via pretty much guesswork, has anyone in the mean time managed to figure out what instruction the flags are giving us to allow us to arrive logically at the answer? I haven't seen much on this since the card started getting answered. Has it been established that:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Most he flags can be equated to numbers, and that it can be seperated into 11 triplets, or possibly some quantity of pairs.

Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that looking up possible number combinations in the codebook (triples for words, doubles for letters) that Nelson's men were using at the time might avail us of something? Has this been tried?


Anyway, thanks to everyone for all the insights so far.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:12 pm
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beanienutter
Kilroy

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1

how long is answer?

i have try several diffrent answers but still can not find the solve.

how long is the answer?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:06 pm
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TheDarkMoomin
Boot


Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Sheffield

I have one 'logical' route from puzzle to answer - its how my thinking got me to it.

Basically, I looked up a few systems, and got frustrated with the fact that no system accounted for all flags, but some flags were in several systems withdifferent translations.

Although not all silvers are clean puzzles, there are generally pretty elegant, at least once you know the answer and can look back at how easy it could have been if only you had thought about it differently.

Basically, I never liked the idea that we had to find meaningd for all the flags from a variety of systems, and then some how 'figure out' which systems to use for the ones that appear in more than one. It just wasn't clean enough. I felt if that was the task each flag would be in onlt one system, or there would be a system that accounted fro all flags. That certainly didn't seem to be forth coming.

Anyhow, my first answer was:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
confusion as the first detailed site I looked at (Broadside) said that this was the result of the substitution of expects for confides, and clearly what happened to us when trying to translate the flags


However, this wasn't it, so my next guess was the actual answer. I can't quite fit the answer to the end of the logic, but we encountered numerous of the problems associated with communication by flag (mixing of systems, lack of words, change of meaning in tryiong to limit numbers of flags used etc) and the answer does sum this up quite well. Seems the troops were somewhat P****d off with the tone of the broadcast message... although that wasn't what Nelson really meant.

There may well be a 'real' way of getting from flags to answer, but I for one am not certain.

Moomin

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:23 am
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volvox
Veteran


Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Candy Mountain

Results of my attempt

I was hoping to be the awesome one who figured out how to decode this card into a solvable question, but alas, I have to stop before I go crazy. Bang Head At this point I'm thinking it will be easier to find the Cube than figure out this card.

I'm posting the results of what I tried in hopes it can aid anyone else who takes a crack at this. Some of it has been posted before in bits and pieces, but hopefully there is nothing to earn me a trout.

General approaches:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Flags are from different navigational signal flag systems
* No single system has them all
* How do you pick and choose what system? I don't think there is a method.
* It appears that any combinations of systems results in a mishmash of
numbers and letters that don't make sense.
* There are four flags that don't belong to any system.
* Some flags have the right pattern, but wrong shape or orientation.

* Do the unknown flags mark spaces or word beginnings?
* Does the shape and/or orientation of the flag matter?
* Are the flags just a proxy for some other system of presenting the info?
* Is the UK flag part of the message, or just a visual clue? Or does it stand for the word "England"?

Substitution cipher:
* Flags represented as letters:
M - rhqpbqongbofmpe
R - hmkjomikaqkf
L - dechlqm

* Possible word divisions:
* By long triangles:
M - rhqp bqong bofmpe
R - hmkjomik aqkf
L - de chlqm
Solution - IN ARGOT FROM WOULD WUETMN RTPCUTKP HOPE
Solution (join) - DUCK SCORE SOITKGUTHBOTYH ACHING MULCT

* By what look like wider gaps between flags:
M - rhqp b qon gbo fmpe
R - hmkj omik aqkf
L - dec hlqm (dec hlq m?)
Solution - FLY BCIA XBIU HIED THE GAUL BANS EARN KING
Solution (join) - MAIN HIED THE ZLNWALSJ ELKS OISZRWU AXIL

* By unknown flags (drop them too):
M - r qpbqon bo mp
R - mkjomik qkf
L - d c lqm
Solution - U I GET A EOBEYJ BY TO TNHYTMN END
Solution (join) - I EOBEYJ BY TO U A GET TNHYTMN END

* By the horizontal beams (arms?) on eash mast:
M - rh qpb qongbo fmpe
R - h mkj omika qkf
L - d ec hlqm
Solution - U OF AGMH LA MEN MTZWNT DHEO A HIS THRIP MID
Solution (join) - AS CRY CPKDYP MHRIS HOW PHLOX COME IN SUCH

Transposition cipher:
* Line up unknown flags
* Line up long triangle flags
* Line up start/ends of groupings
* Assemble based on the 3/4 groupings based on larger gaps between flags

* Even if it lined up somehow, we still don't know what the flag stand for

Other:
* Turned card on it's side and tried to match the shape of the flags and pattern lines to letters. One almost looks like "and" but everything else doesn't line up well with English letters.
* It is very possible that the UK flag should be ignored. It was used to indicate
the fleet admiral's ship.
* Make a grid of letters and somehow put flags along the row and column headers. This way a combination of two flags would locate a letter in the grid. But, again, not sure what the order would be or what flags to use.

Words to try and fit in:
* confides
* expects
* Nelson
* Pasco
* original
* message
* signal
* Trafalgar
* final
* last

The quotes:
* England expects that every man will do his duty
* England confides that every man will do his duty
* Nelson confides that every man will do his duty


Thoughts about the architect's other cards and how those methods might help solve this one. NOTE: Has spoilers for Master of Secretes and Instruction:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
* Master of Secrets had you translate hieroglyphics into a question.
* Instruction had you decipher Labanotation into semaphore into a question.
* This pattern suggests that Broadside would have you decipher signal flags into a question or some other type of code.
* The problem is that hieroglyphics and Labanotation are established systems that you can find information on. The signal flags in Broadside do not appear to correspond to any one signal flag system, if any.
* This suggests a different approach, but no hints as to what it could be.
* It doesn't seem like the expected solve path for this card should be take "Broadside", the type of ship, signal flags in general, and England and somehow arrive at Nelson's message. Well, that part could be fine, but it seems illogical to have us just randomly guess a specific word from that. Doesn't seem very puzzle-like.


And here is an Excel spreadsheet I was using to keep track of all the different flag systems. It also has a sheet for constructing the message from them:
Broadside.xls
Description  Spreadsheet to keep track of the flag systems
xls

 Download 
Filename  Broadside.xls 
Filesize  84KB 
Downloaded  221 Time(s) 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:29 pm
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AndyAndyO
Veteran

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 70

According to Rand0m in his post-cube-finding-ramblings......

"By design, the Broadside flag signals can only be solved with information not available via Google."

It's nice to know Google doesn't know all the answers, but actually Broadside was solvable by inspired guesswork (I should know!!!) - and, judging by the number of people who have since solved it, the actual solve must be far too obscure and clever for us - funny how these mysterious silvers are far too complex for mere mortals to solve, even with the aid of mankinds most popular search tool!

Let's hope Mind Candy reveal the actual solution details... watch this space!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:10 pm
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aliendial
Unfictologist


Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 3438
Location: Far Far Away. Nowhere Near You. Really.

Or..maybe we get lucky and google has caught up with these flags? Except not, since nobody has really been able to put it all together yet. *pout*
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aliendial

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:19 pm
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volvox
Veteran


Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Candy Mountain

I convinced we have to recreate
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
the Battle of Trafalgar
now.

I know some people tried talking to historians and such, but didn't have any luck. Maybe that's the route we were suppose to take. At this point I'm guessing that finding out what those other flag are won't come from books at your local library either.

Ah well, gives me more time to let those mysterious blobs on Persian to cause me grief.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:07 pm
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AndyAndyO
Veteran

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 70

Re: Results of my attempt
There is an answer!

volvox wrote:
I was hoping to be the awesome one who figured out how to decode this card into a solvable question, but alas, I have to stop before I go crazy. Bang Head


Keep at it Volvox! Apparently there IS a solution!
I contacted the card designer, and she has said she will post some kind of explanation!
[Look away if you don't want to know the answer]

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:05 pm
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volvox
Veteran


Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 86
Location: Candy Mountain

Re: Results of my attempt
There is an answer!

AndyAndyO wrote:
volvox wrote:
I was hoping to be the awesome one who figured out how to decode this card into a solvable question, but alas, I have to stop before I go crazy. Bang Head


Keep at it Volvox! Apparently there IS a solution!
I contacted the card designer, and she has said she will post some kind of explanation!
[Look away if you don't want to know the answer]


That would be sweet. I may take another look at this card, but I've acquired Shuffled, so I may let that give me some pain instead.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:10 am
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AndyAndyO
Veteran

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 70

Broadside explanation now posted over at Perplexorum

Volvox and others may like to know that the explanation of the flags signals has now been posted by Margaret Maitland over on the Perplexorum site.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:53 am
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