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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Lost Experience » TLE: General, Updates, Spec, & Info
[UPDATE] stophanso.rachelblake.com - Iceland Post 01 (Jun28)
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matt_the_pale
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Chewy wrote:
Just for the purpose of spec and clarity, I find it odd that this thread has no mentions of the 'Valenzetti Equation'

Wow. That is weird. Well, here are my thoughts on it:

We had already guessed that the VIK Institute was using the autistic savants to calculate the Valenzetti Equation. Why would they want to do this, you ask? My personal theory is that when Alvar Hanso disappeared, he took the only copy of the Equation with him. Mittelwerk, left with only bits and pieces of it, had to reconstruct it using what resources he had.

Now, the video gives us two new bits of information regarding the Valenzetti Equation: one, that the third basement of the VIK Institute is full of mathematicians (some who don't want to be there) who are being paid to work on the Equation.

Two, the five hieroglyphs from the "Light Sequence Again" hack are likely the same hieroglyphs that Zander refers to, and they are apparently parts of the Equation that represent something (likely to help compress the size of the equation and/or compartmentalize it).

I and a few other people are keeping close tabs on all information discovered about the Valenzetti Equation. You can find more at these two websites:

http://findvalenzetti.blogspot.com

http://members.aol.com/mattthepale/valenzetti.html

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:16 pm
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SpiralBoundBook
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matt_the_pale wrote:
We had already guessed that the VIK Institute was using the autistic savants to calculate the Valenzetti Equation. Why would they want to do this, you ask? My personal theory is that when Alvar Hanso disappeared, he took the only copy of the Equation with him. Mittelwerk, left with only bits and pieces of it, had to reconstruct it using what resources he had.

*Spiral cheers* Great spec.
Now- the question is this: if the Valenzetti equation is used to calcuate the date of the apocalypse, why is the EQUATION so importatant? Wouldn't we just want the answer?

Or perhaps it is something that can be altered, and what they are doing at the Vik Institute is running the equation, with different values plugged in, trying to see if they can outsmart fate.
Like- they say,
"Okay, so right now, the date of the apocalypse is May 26, 2870, but if we were to, say, wipe out this one African country with a disease tomorrow, would that speed it up, or would it buy us an extra century or two?"

This all reminds me very much of Isaac Asimov's fantastic Foundation Series, and the Psychohistorian experiments led by Hari Seldon.
Check it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_%28novel%29

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:36 pm
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matt_the_pale
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SpiralBoundBook wrote:
*Spiral cheers* Great spec.
Now- the question is this: if the Valenzetti equation is used to calcuate the date of the apocalypse, why is the EQUATION so importatant? Wouldn't we just want the answer?

If Alvar Hanso never gave away the answer and just directed the Hanso Foundation's activities without telling anyone exactly -why- they were doing something, I think it would ensure that no one else knew the date but him.

SpiralBoundBook wrote:
Or perhaps it is something that can be altered, and what they are doing at the Vik Institute is running the equation, with different values plugged in, trying to see if they can outsmart fate.

Yes, others have suggested that perhaps the various variables of the Equation work in such a manner that they can be altered, and this new information can be plugged back into the whole equation to give a different date. Perhaps that's what the hieroglyphs are—those variables.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:46 pm
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SpiralBoundBook
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 		Well-
To clarify my original post. It seems to me there are two possibilities for the activities in the Vik Institute.

Either, a)They are trying to work out the Valenzetti Equation based on scraps they have after Alvar absconded. However, it seems to me it would be hard to work out whether you had FOUND the correct Equation or not unless you knew the answer. I mean- in order to prove an equation is true all the time, you have to test it, and in physics, for example, you would test an equation by running several experiments and measuring the variables. We can't exactly wait around and see if the date predicted by a particular "guess" of the equation is right or not. So, to me, if this is what they are doing, then they must have the date from the some original solve of the Valenzetti Equation and are working backwards. To what end?

That led me to think that the following is more likely:

b) They have the Valenzetti Equation and they are trying to alter the date of the apocalypse, or to use it to see if there are things they CAN alter which would change the date of the apocalypse. These changeable things, these variables, these new mathematical/chemical/etc. terms are represented in the Equation by hieroglyphic symbols- perhaps because most of the Roman and Greek letters are already taken.
So originally, perhaps, Alvar had a solution that gave them a date for the end of the world. But then, time went by, things changed, and someone (Alvar/Valenzetti/Mittlewerk, who knows) ran the equation again with the new values plugged in for the variables and found that the date of the end of the world had also changed. Therefore, they concluded that if they were to take drastic action, perhaps they could extend the timespan of human existence.

Or they could shorten it.

And I'm sorry if this is repetitive, you say others have suggested it, but I haven't seen it on this board before...

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:48 pm
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vexingmodstwo
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SpiralBoundBook wrote:
Well-
To clarify my original post. It seems to me there are two possibilities for the activities in the Vik Institute.

Either, a)They are trying to work out the Valenzetti Equation based on scraps they have after Alvar absconded. However, it seems to me it would be hard to work out whether you had FOUND the correct Equation or not unless you knew the answer. I mean- in order to prove an equation is true all the time, you have to test it, and in physics, for example, you would test an equation by running several experiments and measuring the variables. We can't exactly wait around and see if the date predicted by a particular "guess" of the equation is right or not. So, to me, if this is what they are doing, then they must have the date from the some original solve of the Valenzetti Equation and are working backwards. To what end?

That led me to think that the following is more likely:

b) They have the Valenzetti Equation and they are trying to alter the date of the apocalypse, or to use it to see if there are things they CAN alter which would change the date of the apocalypse. These changeable things, these variables, these new mathematical/chemical/etc. terms are represented in the Equation by hieroglyphic symbols- perhaps because most of the Roman and Greek letters are already taken.
So originally, perhaps, Alvar had a solution that gave them a date for the end of the world. But then, time went by, things changed, and someone (Alvar/Valenzetti/Mittlewerk, who knows) ran the equation again with the new values plugged in for the variables and found that the date of the end of the world had also changed. Therefore, they concluded that if they were to take drastic action, perhaps they could extend the timespan of human existence.

Or they could shorten it.

And I'm sorry if this is repetitive, you say others have suggested it, but I haven't seen it on this board before...


Very thought provoking....

I like B. But I'm still on the "Mittlewerk doesn't have it" bandwagon.
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[URL=http://findvalenzetti.blogspot.com]Finding the Valenzetti Equation... My "in-character" blog.[/URL]

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:02 pm
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Hank Scorpio
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 		I'd just like to point out that towards the top of the second page of this thread I did mention they were working on the Valenzetti Equation. It's there, like the third one down.

One thing I've noticed that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that there is no proof Hanso ever had the Valenzetti Equation. Do we know for sure Gary's book actually contained the formula, I thought he wasn't able to get it. Hanso might have the rights to the book and all the copies but it doesnt mean he has the formula unless theres a major piece of info I have missed. If I did miss something I apologize in advance.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:52 am
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SpiralBoundBook
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vexingmodstwo wrote:
I like B. But I'm still on the "Mittlewerk doesn't have it" bandwagon.

Maybe it's both- maybe they have the original date and some of the equation, and they are trying to reconstruct it so they can then change it. So, Mittlewerk doesn't have it, but they also aren't *just* trying to figure out when the world will end.

Hmm... maybe Alvar bought up all the books and used them to figure out the equation for himself, and then there was an internal battle over how this powerful piece of information should be used. He said, "We should not tinker with fate!" Mittelwerk said "Humans make their own destiny!" <cue epic music>

Mittelwerk manages to gain the upper hand within the foundation, so Alvar destroys all the remaining copies of the equation and then goes off in hiding on a tropical island that has gone "off the grid", a place where an old DHARMA project, now fallen into disarray, was once stationed- a project that Mittelwerk never really had full access to.

Now Mittelwerk is running the foundation, using Vik to try to work out the secrets of the equation to alter the course of humanity's future, while still searching for that island so he can find Alvar.

End insane bout of theorizing. Thanks for tuning in.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:37 am
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Gus Raja
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 		I think the spec in this thread is on the right track as far as the implication that Mittelwerk is trying to play God. Even the part about him not being able to find Alvar might play into...

2x18
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
"Faux Henry's quote that God "can't see this island any better than the rest of the world."


The Bible says that no man knows the day or the hour, but Mittelwerk seems determined to set the date himself. No wonder he recognized Rachel. LOL.

Anyways, consider Joop for a second. Somehow they figured out what it took to extend this orangutan's life to 105 years. If they can do that for a monkey, what can they do for mankind. When they say "Life Extension Project," maybe they're talking about the lifetime of mankind. This goes quite a bit beyond what was initially thought to be a cyronics lab or else an organ transplant facility.

Also, if so many reknown mathematicians are there, some against their will, wouldn't there be reports of missing mathematicians on the web? I thought of putting this is a seperate thread in the META section, and I might if this takes off on a tangent, but for now I'll just mention one such case...

http://dalekeiger.com/wp-content/missing.pdf

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:11 am
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chief
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SpiralBoundBook wrote:
vexingmodstwo wrote:
I like B. But I'm still on the "Mittlewerk doesn't have it" bandwagon.

Maybe it's both- maybe they have the original date and some of the equation, and they are trying to reconstruct it so they can then change it. So, Mittlewerk doesn't have it, but they also aren't *just* trying to figure out when the world will end.

Hmm... maybe Alvar bought up all the books and used them to figure out the equation for himself, and then there was an internal battle over how this powerful piece of information should be used. He said, "We should not tinker with fate!" Mittelwerk said "Humans make their own destiny!" <cue epic music>

Mittelwerk manages to gain the upper hand within the foundation, so Alvar destroys all the remaining copies of the equation and then goes off in hiding on a tropical island that has gone "off the grid", a place where an old DHARMA project, now fallen into disarray, was once stationed- a project that Mittelwerk never really had full access to.

Now Mittelwerk is running the foundation, using Vik to try to work out the secrets of the equation to alter the course of humanity's future, while still searching for that island so he can find Alvar.

End insane bout of theorizing. Thanks for tuning in.
Tommy likey....I do think the overarching end of Lost is going to be freewill v. determinism, playing god v. letting the chips fall where they may...we have seen themes from Lost show up in TLE so I am not surprised to see these ideas here. I think DHARMA and the hatches were set up on the island to explore areas of science that might be useful for preventing the apocalypse, as revealed by the Valenzetti Equation. But I think DHARMA was not abandoned by Hanso, rather they rebelled against their purpose and are now working against the attempt by the Foundation to play god with human destiny. After all,

Season 2 finale spoiler:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
When asked who the Others were, Fake Henry said "We're the good guys." They don't seem like good guys to us, but if you thought that you had to save the world from the machinations of egomaniacal forces trying to fundamentally alter human destiny by essentially playing god - well, you wouldn't want a bunch of jerk-offs from a plane crash to get in your way, now would you? Of course, that doesn't mean the Others aren't off on their own equally bad egomaniacal quest to control human fate - just that they consider themselves opposed to the Foundation. I don't want go off into the show too much, but TLE is supposed to give back story that enriches the show - so I am thinking about how what we are learning now can inform the show in a background sort of way. And this spec explains why the hatches are abandoned, what the heck the Others are up to, etc.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:32 am
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Gus Raja
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Heres the letter, its odd though I tried an online translater and it didnt translate right, maybe someone on here is Polish and can help out.
Quote:
10 MAJ 2006

Drodzy wspolpracownicy

Biore krotki urlop dziekanski/naukowy w miesiacach od czerwca do sierpnia aby spedzic troche tak waznego czasu z rodzina jak rowniez wygladzic i przedstawic PATTERN TEOREM na "2006 NOWE MILENIUM SYMPOZJUM MATEMATYCZNO - STATYSTYCZNE" w Perth, Australia. W tym okresie nie bede osiagalna. Prosze zajac sie sprawami studentow i kadry naukowej mozliwie jak najlepiej.

Z powazaniem,
Vigi Benoffski



Nobody speaks Polish? Has anyone seen this letter transcribed on a different site. All we're told by Rachel is that this is Benoffski agreeing to appear at this seminar, but then she explains how he died in the fire the same day. Was his death meant to keep him from talking about what they're doing. If so, Mittelwerk is possibly guilty of murder.

To clarify what I could translate on the web, I'll repost the finding formatted like the letter with the translated English in bold print...


Quote:
MAY 10, 2006

Drodzy wspolpracownicy

Biore krotki vacation dean/apprenticeship on miesiacach ex bail until sickle to shipping trochee yes waznego downtime ex bears whereby przez co rowniez wygladzic as well officer PATTERN THEOREM to NOWE MILLENNIUM SYMPOSIUM MATHEMATICALLY Statisticians " on Perth , Australia. Therein term not bede osiagalna. Powder tuck in sie deal student as well quadrille scientists mozliwie to the best of one's abilities.

EX powazaniem,

Vigi Benoffski


PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:58 am
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matt_the_pale
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
One thing I've noticed that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that there is no proof Hanso ever had the Valenzetti Equation. Do we know for sure Gary's book actually contained the formula, I thought he wasn't able to get it. Hanso might have the rights to the book and all the copies but it doesnt mean he has the formula unless theres a major piece of info I have missed. If I did miss something I apologize in advance.

Gary Troup was "categorically denied access" to the Equation by the Hanso Foundation. Troup claims that "Alvar Hanso is the only guy in the world who has an actual copy of the Valenzetti Equation."

You can see this from Gary Troup's interviews.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:23 am
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danteIL
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Gus Raja wrote:
Nobody speaks Polish? Has anyone seen this letter transcribed on a different site. All we're told by Rachel is that this is Benoffski agreeing to appear at this seminar, but then she explains how he died in the fire the same day. Was his death meant to keep him from talking about what they're doing. If so, Mittelwerk is possibly guilty of murder.


This seems to be pretty good translation that I found in Rachel's blog comments:
Quote:

May 10, 2006

Dear Colleagues

I am taking a short job-related leave of absence in the months of June through August to spend quality time with the family and (polish out/prepare for) the Pattern Theorem for the 2006 New Millenium Symposium of Mathematics and Statistics in Perth, Australia. During this time I will not be reachable. Please take care of all the student and faculty issues as soon as possible.

Sincerely

Vigi Benoffski


So there really doesn't seem to be any more to this on the surface. Obviously, the suggestion is that Benoffski didn't really write the letter and that it was just a cover for his disappearance to Vik. I wonder what they were planning on doing in August, when he indicates that he was going to return..

Also, we don't know who set the fire. It could have been Mittelwerk, but it could also have been one of the resident savants/mathematicians.. what better way to sabotage the Valenzetti Project?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:41 am
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lostviolinist
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 		On SpiralBound's theory and chief's Season 2 Finale observations:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
That still leaves the LOSTies and their part in this. To me that still doesn't explain dragging innocent people off and murdering them when they just got there. The LOSTies would have never seen the Others (or at least not for a long time), much less try and get in their way. Otherwise why do the Others bother them? And if they consider themselves good and if they can deceive so well, why not concoct a backstory for themselves and get the LOSTies off the island - and out of their way?


edit: i seemed to have typed with a lisp. aka, typos.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:51 am
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chief
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lostviolinist wrote:
On SpiralBound's theory and chief's Season 2 Finale observations:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
That still leaves the LOSTies and their part in this. To me that still doesn't explain dragging innocent people off and murdering them when they just got there.
Right, that's why I said:
chief wrote:
Of course, that doesn't mean the Others aren't off on their own equally bad egomaniacal quest to control human fate - just that they consider themselves opposed to the Foundation.
I certainly don't have all the answers about the motivations or goals of the Others are...and of course, the goals of the Foundation with respect to the Valenzetti Equation are SPEC as well. But I don't want to spiral too far off into Lost stuff...we'll see the connections in time.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:30 pm
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SpiralBoundBook
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matt_the_pale wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
One thing I've noticed that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that there is no proof Hanso ever had the Valenzetti Equation. Do we know for sure Gary's book actually contained the formula, I thought he wasn't able to get it. Hanso might have the rights to the book and all the copies but it doesnt mean he has the formula unless theres a major piece of info I have missed. If I did miss something I apologize in advance.

Gary Troup was "categorically denied access" to the Equation by the Hanso Foundation. Troup claims that "Alvar Hanso is the only guy in the world who has an actual copy of the Valenzetti Equation."

You can see this from Gary Troup's interviews.

Hmm.. I took Hank's original question to mean there is no proof Hanso ever had the Valenzetti Equation- as in, the EQUATION itself, not the book- hence his saying "he may have all the copies but that doesn't mean he has the formula." We ASSUME that Troupe's book actually had the formula in it, but is there proof of that? If so, I missed it as well.
Unfortunately, because it's a video interview, we don tknow if Troup is talking out The Valenzetti Equation (book title) or the Valenzetti Equation (mathematical formula.) Or if they are one and the same.
chief wrote:
I certainly don't have all the answers about the motivations or goals of the Others are...and of course, the goals of the Foundation with respect to the Valenzetti Equation are SPEC as well. But I don't want to spiral too far off into Lost stuff...we'll see the connections in time.

Yes, I agree, and one last thing, which is actually a
Season 3 Spoiler (although not a huge one, but some hints from the writers.)
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Damon and Carlton said that we would hear much more about The Others and their motivations in Season 3. So all of this makes ideal backstory for these new characters.

So I say, wait and see for that part. Lots of spec still to be made on Alvar though- is he Good or is he Bad? Or will the course of this adventure prove to show us that it's not just black and white? I like that second idea- especially since P and Rachel have been so thin themselves and yet so stark in their portrayal of the entire Foundation- THEM EVIL. ME GOOD. YOU BELEIVE!

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:40 pm
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