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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[PUZZLE] #251 - Silver - The Thirteenth Labour - READ POST#1
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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chimera245
Decorated

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 209

 		Ditto here at work I'm afraid - the end of financial year here in Oz, plus second semester enrolments at the colleges.

Life's like that - good luck on the training GuiN.

Other than for a 2 hour power cut yesterday afternoon all has been running well, we are still processing about 0.8% per day steadily, so at that rate we are now < 80 days away from completing the keyspace.

As for progress I've just finished LWiLzzzz on my machine here, so I guess all those l33t variations of H3rCuL35 and H3R4c135 are gone.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:56 pm
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Misroi
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Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 133

 		Can't say I'm sorry to see l33tsp33k fall as a possible solution, but it would have had "hacker elegance."

Oh well, P0$E1D0N here we come!

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:50 pm
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funkysfinest
Boot

Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 19
Location: Dundee, Bonny Scotland

 		hi, i'm new to the hunt and have heard loads about 13th labour; don't have the card yet, but thought i'd have a go at the uncrackable. I read the threads and I think you are all going down the wrong path!
Idea like mentioned early in this thread can the digits be a date; it was my first thought so i researched the 8th of december in any year ending 64. To my amazement I got 4 hits and one stood out head and shoulders above the rest. The infamous mathematician and philosopher George Boole died on the 8th December 1864, and as for the five cows; we all know that in the animal kingdom the cow is often just a reference to the female of the species! Well Mr Boole had 5 daughters! Coincidence; I doubt it!
I think that the code can be cracked with boolean algabra or rings; something this man invented!!!!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:56 pm
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poozleModerator
Entrenched

Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 1090
funkysfinest wrote:
hi, i'm new to the hunt and have heard loads about 13th labour; don't have the card yet, but thought i'd have a go at the uncrackable. I read the threads and I think you are all going down the wrong path!
Idea like mentioned early in this thread can the digits be a date; it was my first thought so i researched the 8th of december in any year ending 64. To my amazement I got 4 hits and one stood out head and shoulders above the rest. The infamous mathematician and philosopher George Boole died on the 8th December 1864, and as for the five cows; we all know that in the animal kingdom the cow is often just a reference to the female of the species! Well Mr Boole had 5 daughters! Coincidence; I doubt it!
I think that the code can be cracked with boolean algabra or rings; something this man invented!!!!


We have been told to use the RCCrypt software to solve this and we have been as good as told that what we are doing is right so I doubt what you are saying is correct, but if you make any progress (or even get a solve from it) feel free to let us know.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:48 pm
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funkysfinest
Boot

Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 19
Location: Dundee, Bonny Scotland
Quote:
We have been told to use the RCCrypt software to solve this and we have been as good as told that what we are doing is right so I doubt what you are saying is correct, but if you make any progress (or even get a solve from it) feel free to let us know.


Poozle who told you to use the RCCrypt softwear? just so I know if I'm waisting my time or not!
Smile

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:53 pm
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xnera
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Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 79

 		This post explains why it's believed that RCCRYPT is the right approach.
_________________
Watching A World Without Oil and Perplex City
PXC Trades | You, too, can edit the PXC Wiki!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:07 pm
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funkysfinest
Boot

Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 19
Location: Dundee, Bonny Scotland
Quote:
SO, I talked to the organ grinder (not the monkey) as it were, and referred to the original paper - to confirm once and for all in my own mind that all was well:

If the organ grinder refers to a mind candy official I'll accept as true. other wise I'd say I have a ligitimate theory, as here is what wikipedia had to say about George Boole
Quote:
As the inventor of Boolean algebra, the basis of all modern computer arithmetic, Boole is regarded in hindsight as one of the founders of the field of computer science, although computers did not exist in his day.

Quote:
Because truth values can be represented as binary numbers or as voltage levels in logic circuits, the parallel extends to these as well. Thus the theory of Boolean algebras has many practical applications in electrical engineering and computer science, as well as in mathematical logic.

Quote:
Bitwise logical operations
Though not directly related to the numerical interpretation of binary symbols, sequences of bits may be manipulated using Boolean logical operators. When a string of binary symbols is manipulated in this way, it is called a bitwise operation; the logical operators AND, OR, and XOR may be performed on corresponding bits in two binary numerals provided as input. The logical NOT operation may be performed on individual bits in a single binary numeral provided as input. Sometimes, such operations may be used as arithmetic short-cuts, and may have other computational benefits as well. For example, discarding the last bit of a binary number (also known as binary shifting), is the decimal equivalent of division by two. See bitwise operation.
Smile

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:53 pm
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hairysocks
Boot


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Exeter, Devon, England

 		Hi. Its been a while since my last post.

I'm just checking on what the consensus is on how to use rccrypt. Am I correct in assuming the "64/12/8" at the top of the card means we should be using rccrypt as follows:

Code:
rccrypt -d -r 12 -k 0102030405060708 -i filein -o fileout


or

Code:
rccrypt -d -p -r 12 -k 0102030405060708 -i filein -o fileout


where the value after -k is a hexadecimal representation of an 8-byte text string - i.e. a 64-bit number (because every two characters in the "key" represent one 8-bit byte);

and the filein parameter is a file containing the data to decrypt.

The two uses of rccrypt show one without the -p parameter and one with that parameter. The help page for rccrypt says -p can be used to xor each block with the previously encrypted block. The two uses give different results when decrypting, so both should be tried.

Anyway, this is how I've understood the discussion on rccrypt in this forum.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks.
Rob
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"You never can tell with Heffalumps"

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:15 pm
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themandotcom
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Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 136
Location: Syosset, New York, USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe

 		Hey Chimera,

I'm just wondering what letter we are up to now? Or anybody else that knows. Thanks man!

Zach

P.S. Funkysfinest this is definatly a RCCRYPT problem, and I see no point for any speculation
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13th Labour!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:51 pm
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chimera245
Decorated

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 209
hairysocks wrote:

The two uses of rccrypt show one without the -p parameter and one with that parameter. The help page for rccrypt says -p can be used to xor each block with the previously encrypted block. The two uses give different results when decrypting, so both should be tried.


There are indeed two modes to RCCRYPT - for now we are using the non -p (Non XORing) one - as that is the default behaviour of RCCRYPT and there is no indication in the card (or Von's hint) to do so.

Doing the other one (which could be done later if necessary) would actually more than double the total length of time, as we would not be able to evaluate potential failures after the first real data block any more.

As for which letter we are on my PC has just completed OHXRzzzz, so we have the rest of O, P-Z and a-z to go.

I guess M1k3y80y wasn't the key then, sorry Mr Smith.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:15 pm
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e_nygma
Decorated

Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Maryland, US
themandotcom wrote:
P.S. Funkysfinest this is definatly a RCCRYPT problem, and I see no point for any speculation


*shrugs* We're performing a brute force search on the key. Until its done, there's not much we can do. If Funkysfinest wants to spend some time trying to come up with a boolean algebra solution, more power to him.

I'm not sure I see how he'll turn that card into a set of boolean equations but why stomp him while we're waiting for the solve?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:17 pm
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Furry Mark
Boot


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 30
Location: Cambridge, UK
chimera245 wrote:
...
As for which letter we are on my PC has just completed OHXRzzzz, so we have the rest of O, P-Z and a-z to go...

Is there an easy(ish) way to translate the unit number into the key being tested?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:10 pm
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Furry Mark
Boot


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 30
Location: Cambridge, UK
Furry Mark wrote:
chimera245 wrote:
...
As for which letter we are on my PC has just completed OHXRzzzz, so we have the rest of O, P-Z and a-z to go...

Is there an easy(ish) way to translate the unit number into the key being tested?
Never mind - I've figured it out. Just finished OrHFzzzz here

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:25 am
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sjbuknewc
Boot

Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 20
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne

 		how did you work it out?
I'd like to know!!

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:44 pm
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Furry Mark
Boot


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 30
Location: Cambridge, UK
sjbuknewc wrote:
how did you work it out?
I'd like to know!!
The unit number is just the packed form of the first four ASCII characters of the keys being tested.

If you convert the unit number to hexadecimal (e.g. by using Windows calculator in scientific mode) you can read the values out of a standard ASCII table. As we are only looking at alphanumeric keys, you only need the following part of the table:
Code:
30=0 31=1 32=2 33=3 34=4 35=5 36=6 37=7 38=8
39=9 41=A 42=B 43=C 44=D 45=E 46=F 47=G 48=H
49=I 4A=J 4B=K 4C=L 4D=M 4E=N 4F=O 50=P 51=Q
52=R 53=S 54=T 55=U 56=V 57=W 58=X 59=Y 5A=Z
61=a 62=b 63=c 64=d 65=e 66=f 67=g 68=h 69=i
6A=j 6B=k 6C=l 6D=m 6E=n 6F=o 70=p 71=q 72=r
73=s 74=t 75=u 76=v 77=w 78=x 79=y 7A=z


e.g. the unit running on my PC at the moment is 1346519890.
Converting to hex gives 50424352, so this unit is checking PBCRzzzz

Hmmm... Guess we are coming up on keys starting PXC soon

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:37 pm
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