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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Perplex City » PXC: General/Updates
[UPDATE] Caine blog - Cracked! 30th june '06
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jonc
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Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 144

 		I've just did a quick search, and KRSA is actually an algorithm on earth, called "Kid-RSA".

Maybe this is a clue on how something is encrypted??? (Shuffled?)

edit: also, KRSA is flawed (as I suspected and mentioned yesterday), so if it is used to encrypt something, then we should be able to decrypt it (providing we know the "public" key part).


jonc

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:46 am
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Mico
Boot

Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 66
Location: Leighton Buzzard, Beds
Juxta wrote:
Sarah is a Military Historian, not a cryptographer


Your infinitely greater memory serves you well, J. And my lack of being arsed to search through the archives was my undoing. I could have sworn Kurt was seeing someone in Crypto though... or did I dream it???

M

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:46 am
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jbd
Decorated

Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 295
SteveC wrote:
Finally - the files change over ever three hours? 11pm last night - that would mean 2am, 5am and 8am - but they changed over at 9am as far as I could tell?


Yep. Likely four. In which case we have all the voice files now.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:02 am
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spugmeistress
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Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 460
Location: manchester, uk
Juxta wrote:
But I do have to indulge in a big, glutinous ladleful of "WTF?" at the point about the blackmailers in this case being "kind" in their dealings. The first audio file discovered commences with the line:-

Mystery Woman wrote:
If he dies, you realise that's it. You can do what you like to me - I don't care about me.


It just doesn't quite strike me as being particularly kind or, y'know cuddly in it's phrasing. Maybe I misread it. Maybe holding the threat of a parent's death over someone, in order to co-erce them into working for you is commonplace in Perplex City. *shrugs*


ok, well this is the way i see it...

Quote:
<sigh> You'd better look after your side of the bargain. It's the only reason i'm doing this.


sounds like someone who chose to do something rather than being forced/blackmailed into it.

Quote:
I saw my dad the other day so, thanks, he told me about everything and... Well I'm, I'm just glad there's a point to all this; he's... he's looking much better... and I suppose that means that you're happy with how I'm doing, so I'm... probably on the right track?


he's been getting better, she sounds thankful, as though they have gone out of their way to help, they are recognising that she has value to them and have rewarded her accordingly

Quote:
If he dies, you realise that's it. You can do what you like to me - I don't care about me.


doesn't sound to me as though she's being threatened, rather that she is worried about being threatened (see next point) - her point being that she is not enjoying this, the only reason why she is doing this is to help her father, and if he dies, the deal will be off. maybe his treatment has been going badly and she's not convinced the doctors are doing all they can? i dont think they are threatening her with her dads life here.

Quote:
Are you trying to scare me? You don't need to so just ... stop it.


if she *was* being threatened, she wouldn't have to ask this, she would know, and she would also know that asking them to stop would be a bit pointless. i think the recent violence has just got her suspicious/paranoid about who she is dealing with, just as we are suspicious about which side helena frye is actually on.

Quote:
I appreciate what you've done for my dad, but ... I've done my bit. That's it. That was the deal.


would she really sound so appreciative if all they had 'done' was to not kill him? thats not 'doing' anything, its 'not doing' something.

anyway i stand by my theory - the 'employer' has offered to help mystery mp3 woman with maybe unaffordable medical bills, or experimental drugs she wouldn't otherwise be able to get her hands on, or something of that ilk. i do not think anything is being withheld or threatened, rather offered where she would not normally have access to it. carrot, not stick, if a tad exploitative (read, very, but hey). hence why i think it's helena frye (who would have the morals to exploit but not threaten), and not the evil 3p (who would surely have more brutal and efficient ways of getting things done.)

rach =)

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:07 pm
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oliverkeers13
Entrenched


Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 917
Location: London, UK
spugmeistress wrote:
Juxta wrote:
But I do have to indulge in a big, glutinous ladleful of "WTF?" at the point about the blackmailers in this case being "kind" in their dealings. The first audio file discovered commences with the line:-

Mystery Woman wrote:
If he dies, you realise that's it. You can do what you like to me - I don't care about me.


It just doesn't quite strike me as being particularly kind or, y'know cuddly in it's phrasing. Maybe I misread it. Maybe holding the threat of a parent's death over someone, in order to co-erce them into working for you is commonplace in Perplex City. *shrugs*


ok, well this is the way i see it...

Quote:
<sigh> You'd better look after your side of the bargain. It's the only reason i'm doing this.


sounds like someone who chose to do something rather than being forced/blackmailed into it.
Not true at all, <sigh> implies an unwillingness, the other person's side of the bargain could be not hurting someone, or handing over files they were being blackmailed with.

Quote:
Quote:
I saw my dad the other day so, thanks, he told me about everything and... Well I'm, I'm just glad there's a point to all this; he's... he's looking much better... and I suppose that means that you're happy with how I'm doing, so I'm... probably on the right track?


he's been getting better, she sounds thankful, as though they have gone out of their way to help, they are recognising that she has value to them and have rewarded her accordingly
She's been doing well, so blackmailer has stopped harming him

Quote:
Quote:
If he dies, you realise that's it. You can do what you like to me - I don't care about me.


doesn't sound to me as though she's being threatened, rather that she is worried about being threatened (see next point) - her point being that she is not enjoying this, the only reason why she is doing this is to help her father, and if he dies, the deal will be off. maybe his treatment has been going badly and she's not convinced the doctors are doing all they can? i dont think they are threatening her with her dads life here.
Wrong. If you listen to it, the message clearly implies that 1. Her father is being harmed. 2. She is trying to stop them harming him by doing what they say. 3. She has been threatened, and this is her response.

Quote:
Quote:
Are you trying to scare me? You don't need to so just ... stop it.


if she *was* being threatened, she wouldn't have to ask this, she would know, and she would also know that asking them to stop would be a bit pointless. i think the recent violence has just got her suspicious/paranoid about who she is dealing with, just as we are suspicious about which side helena frye is actually on.
She's trying to stop innocent people being hurt due to her lack of cooperation, she's trying to reason with her tormentor.

Quote:
Quote:
I appreciate what you've done for my dad, but ... I've done my bit. That's it. That was the deal.


would she really sound so appreciative if all they had 'done' was to not kill him? thats not 'doing' anything, its 'not doing' something.
Letting him live is something I'd be most thankful about.

Quote:
anyway i stand by my theory - the 'employer' has offered to help mystery mp3 woman with maybe unaffordable medical bills, or experimental drugs she wouldn't otherwise be able to get her hands on, or something of that ilk. i do not think anything is being withheld or threatened, rather offered where she would not normally have access to it. carrot, not stick, if a tad exploitative (read, very, but hey).
Well your theory is rubbish.
Quote:
hence why i think it's helena frye (who would have the morals to exploit but not threaten), and not the evil 3p (who would surely have more brutal and efficient ways of getting things done.)

rach =)
OH NOES! TEH RANDOM SPECULATION MONSTER STRIKES AGAIN!
_________________
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"To be in opposition is not to be a nihilist" CH
"im iver an idiot or a genus" Dekuprince
Perplex City Video

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:30 pm
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Scribe
Unfettered


Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 300
Location: Brighton, UK

 		I think this is a bit of a goose chase, but following up on it anyway Smile

jonc wrote:
I've just did a quick search, and KRSA is actually an algorithm on earth, called "Kid-RSA".

(snip)

edit: also, KRSA is flawed (as I suspected and mentioned yesterday), so if it is used to encrypt something, then we should be able to decrypt it (providing we know the "public" key part).


I don't think the Krsa in the text file is the same, as the author of the text file seems to be defining it for their own purposes. I'm not a crypto guru, but from what I can tell, the algorithm in the text file might be ok, considering the following:

1. The algorithm is for a signing (and verification) process, not encryption. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA#Signing_messages Wikipedia on RSA signing]
2. Something may have been lost in the formatting, so "if y = y" might originally have been "if y = y" (and one of the previous y's was also italicised). You'd probably get a similar result by copying and pasting from a web browser to a basic text editor.
3. TBH, I'm not sure what "HashN : {0, 1}" means. Is that a hash that produces 0 or 1, or a hash that produces 0 to 1?

Might be useful, might not be.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:35 pm
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Mico
Boot

Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 66
Location: Leighton Buzzard, Beds

 		I'm afraid I have to agree with Ollie on this point (even with his new banana hat).

spugmeistress wrote:
hence why i think it's helena frye


It can't have been Helena Frye on the receiving end of the audo messages because
Mystery Woman wrote:
I read the papers - police raids on subway stations - sounds like your kind of thing.


whereas the Sentinal entry specifically mentions Helena by name. Here I am assuming that she reads The Sentinal, as we have no real knowledge of other papers in PXC, but if one paper reports a name most others will too.

Sorry
M

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:58 pm
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Scribe
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 300
Location: Brighton, UK

 		Blackmail vs Bargain hunting
FWIW, I'm inclined to agree more with Spugs on this one. The phrase
Quote:
"I appreciate what you've done for my dad"

really doesn't sound like something you'd say if someone had caused the harm in the first place. Plus her Dad obviously doesn't know that she's helping to get him better:
Quote:
Don't ever tell my dad about this.

Sounds to me like she was firstly worried about her Dad suffering from something, and secondly placed in a situation where someone wanted her to do something in return for helping out her dad. So she's now (or at the time of recording, at least) in a bit of a bind, with not much choice.

Question is, how did she get into the position to bargain in the first place? Did "they" approach her? Or did she just know something was going on in the crypto dept and offer some help to infiltrate it further, in return for medical assistance?
_________________
"O, there has been much throwing about of brains."

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http://twitter.com/exmosis/

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:18 pm
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e_nygma
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Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Maryland, US

 		Maybe Caine could investigate whether A) Julian Harrowak has a daughter, and B) if she works in Academy Crypto?

Big carrot there: being put into the Veritana drug trials. Big stick there: being removed from said trials.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:46 pm
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jbd
Decorated

Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 295
Scribe wrote:
2. Something may have been lost in the formatting, so "if y = y" might originally have been "if y = y" (and one of the previous y's was also italicised). You'd probably get a similar result by copying and pasting from a web browser to a basic text editor.
3. TBH, I'm not sure what "HashN : {0, 1}" means. Is that a hash that produces 0 or 1, or a hash that produces 0 to 1?


There's some variables that are obviously exponents, so a loss of formatting like you describe is quite possible.

I'm fairly sure the {0,1} means HashN is composed of 0s and 1s.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:12 am
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duckiemonster
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
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Location: Oxford, UK

 		I can't see how anyone can actually *like* having their family threatened with removal of essential "whatever it is" that this shady character is providing.

I imagine the scenario is something along the lines of 'you scratch my back, I'll gouge chunks out of yours': the girl's father needs something (what he needs is another question entirely). She's found a way to provide it, seems okay at first, then suddenly becomes very dodgy. I'm guessing that whoever it is put the frighteners on her at some point, hence her reluctance and sarcasm in the audio that seems to date from January.

A situation like the above is not engineered by a fluffy and cuddly person, whether they appear to be helping or not... which is summed up nicely by the "do what you like to me" sentence. She seriously believes that this person has the means to bump her and/or her father off.

Therefore: evil. Not nice. Nasty person.

P.S Emailed Kurt a couple of days ago asking if he thought it sounded like Helena's M.O. Haven't heard back, but he's the person most likely to know.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:33 am
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Mico
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
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Location: Leighton Buzzard, Beds

 		DarkMoomin: FYI if you want to listen to the transcripts they have been saved as MP3's on the wiki from here.

The voice inflections do make some of them sound a bit creepy(!) and you will certainly get a feel for how she was feeling at the time of recording.

Note: PLEASE only listen to these MP3 messages if you will not feel it will ruin your enjoyment of the game by not finding them through the backdoor yourself! Wink

M

EDIT: I actually posted this after TheDarkMoomin, at 13:40 BST - does anyone know why a few of my posts have appeared out of chronological order with incorrect timings on the posting? Is this a Time Zone thing???

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:40 am
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TheDarkMoomin
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 		I also agree with Spug on this one.

I know I haven't contributed much to the dicussion, but I seem to constantly playing catch up so most things have been posted by the time I think of them!!

Anyhow, my first instinct on reading the transcripts was that this woman has maybe been coerced into doing these things (as indicated by the <sigh> comment) but she is not being forced or blackmailed by the threat of violence towards her father. I have always felt that this is a means to an ends for her, but one she would rather not have taken. I have alos always felt that the 'employer's' side of the bargain is somtheing to do with getting some kind of medical treatment for her dad (based on the comments about him getting better).

I wouldn't say she is doing these things willingly, but more out of a lack of choice, the lesser of two evils if you will: Dad dies vs doing somethings that go against your morals.

Disclaimer: This is all based on the transcripts, I haven't actually heard the passages, so of course inflection and emphasis given may change some of the meanings.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:43 am
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cassandra
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Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 831

 		Kurt's many relationships (successful or not) are a bit vague. the one I specifically emailed him about concerned the following:

From the Path of Least Time, July 2005:
Quote:
Can't talk for long - I'm supposed to be meeting a girl from Crypto for lunch and I don't want to make a bad first impression by being late!
...
Cassandra asked about whether I went on a '*date* date with the 'Crypto girl'. I wouldn't classify it as a *date* but in any case, I found it pretty funny that people think I'm going out with Violet. Where did you get that impression from? We're very good friends, but I suspect Violet would find this even funnier than I do Smile


From the Backdoor files, possibly also July 2005:
Quote:
Anyway, I'm meeting up with a guy for lunch tomorrow, and he's kind of a hardware freak. So I might try kind of nudging him, see if there's anything going on. He's a nice guy, so he might be helpful.

I'm not going to do anything, y'know, just to get information for you. It's bad enough sneaking around like this. I can't just talk to people anymore, it's like I'm always interrogating them, even my friends. I can't look at anything without suspecting it. It'll do my head in.


There.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:55 am
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Mico
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
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 		Cassandra - possibly my fault for confusing matters. I was getting mistaken and thought the crypto girl was the girl at the time with the diary. Apologies. Your suspicions have been well justified in Kurt's latest edition.

Maybe I don't follow Kurt's love life as closely as some.... Laughing

Mico

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:17 pm
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