Return to Unfiction unforum
 a.r.g.b.b 
FAQ FAQ   Search Search 
 
Welcome!
New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.
Website Restoration Project
This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.
Announcements
This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.
This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.
  

The time now is Wed Nov 13, 2024 4:31 am
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)		 View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum
Calendar
 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Ephemeral » ARG: EDOC Laundry
[DISCUSSION] Who are the dead people?
Moderators: ScarpeGrosse, xnbomb
View previous topicView next topic
Page 1 of 2 [18 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
kaitwospirit
Boot

Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 19

 		[DISCUSSION] Who are the dead people?
So can we now safely assume that Arnold is within our body count?

EDIT - split from this topic following the mp3 puzzle solve leading to the video "Rhythm Method" starring Arnold - SG

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:19 pm
 View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
 Back to top 
Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: Arnold
kaitwospirit wrote:
So can we now safely assume that Arnold is within our body count?

He's been my guess for The Man with the Ashy Hand (i.e. the electroction victim) for quite some time now... but it still isn't technically confirmed.
_________________
These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:26 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Caspian
Decorated


Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 265
Location: Milwaukee

 		Re: Arnold
Shad0 wrote:
He's been my guess for The Man with the Ashy Hand (i.e. the electroction victim) for quite some time now... but it still isn't technically confirmed.


Agreed. My guess is that George comitted suicide about a year and a half before the murder (see the Double Dealer video) and that Arnold was murdered by electrocution, resulting in the ashy hand. This latest video seems to support that theory, but still no official confirmation.
_________________
"I - I don't think I do, Sir," said Caspian. "I'm only a kid."
"Good," said Aslan. "If you had felt yourself sufficient, it would have been a proof that you were not ."

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:25 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address
 Back to top 
e_nygma
Decorated

Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Maryland, US

 		Re: Arnold
caspian_x wrote:
Shad0 wrote:
He's been my guess for The Man with the Ashy Hand (i.e. the electroction victim) for quite some time now... but it still isn't technically confirmed.


Agreed. My guess is that George comitted suicide about a year and a half before the murder (see the Double Dealer video) and that Arnold was murdered by electrocution, resulting in the ashy hand. This latest video seems to support that theory, but still no official confirmation.


THINKING CAP tells us there are three bodies.

The first body is discovered in DOUBLE DEALER. There are videos for Abigail, Adam, Arnold, Jeff, Lyn, and Madison Rose after that time frame. We can assume that Sally isn't the victim since she's supposedly running the PR website after Lyn booked for parts unknown.

This leaves us with the first body being either George or Sam. It could be George because of that weird note in TRADE HORSES (it could be that he was considering suicide and then found PRB to hold it together for an extra year and change). Sam is possible due to his addiction ... you can argue which (I'm thinking of the non-powdery one). A long shot might be Jenny Bollinger after Arnold dumped her. This last possibility is highly unlikely since Lyn says she lost track of the people who made the music, and Jenny has been somewhat of a side note.

The second body is discovered in DEAD FACE. Again, we know that Adam, Jeff, Lyn, Maddy. and Sally are alive based on videos during or after the fact.

Abigail: Unlikely. First, Adam doesn't react when he sees the body in DEAD FACE and given that he loves her (even if they are no longer together, LOVERS QUARREL), you'd think he would do more than look confused. Second, when Adam speaks to Lyn about it later in that video, Adam seemingly refers to the victim as "he" (hence the MAN with the ashy hand). Third, Adam seems to think that Lyn did it and that the victim had it coming. We have seen no evidence of any serious friction between Abigail and Lyn (unless Lyn is really peeved about that BJ in the car). We have seen friction between Lyn and Arnold (below).

Sam & George: Given that they are the possible first victims, they still are possibilities here. However, these two would be a bit odd here. Sam probably wouldn't be hooking up things in the studio, as he'd be setting up for recording. Same sort of thing applies to George, though I suppose a manager might do something like that to assist if the studio engineer (Lyn) was elsewhere.

Arnold: Given everyone's opinion of Lyn as the murderer, it would make sense to have it be Arnold. From an objective point of view, Lyn had means (it was her studio they were using), motive (DIRTY WORK CLEAN CONSCIENCE), and opportunity (she could have set that up at any time since she owned the joint). Still, the "narrator is not the killer" is a convention that can realistically be broken once (it has, if you don't know where, I won't say so as not to disappoint you later on). There does remain the question why the money man was in the studio's booth, but it makes as much sense as George being there.

Jenny: Umm ... no. There's no reason for her to be even in the picture two years after she was dumped by Arnold.

So far, we are missing the third corpse. It's possible that the third body could refer to Jenny's abortion (feels too oblique). However, given that Lyn seemingly forgot about it and only mentioned it in passing, it seems unlikely that it would be a major player. It could be the blackmailer.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:25 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: Arnold
e_nygma wrote:
The second body is discovered in DEAD FACE. Again, we know that Adam, Jeff, Lyn, Maddy. and Sally are alive based on videos during or after the fact.

We also know that Sam is alive: he's talking to Lyn about the murder in DEAD FACE itself. (Which also means that Sam isn't the earlier suicide, either.)

e_nygma wrote:
So far, we are missing the third corpse. It's possible that the third body could refer to Jenny's abortion (feels too oblique). However, given that Lyn seemingly forgot about it and only mentioned it in passing, it seems unlikely that it would be a major player. It could be the blackmailer.

I think that's not a bad guess. Let me go one step further.

[WILD SPEC]
We know that Arnold is a trust-fund kid. Yet he steals money from petty cash (NARC), and we eventually find out that his parents cut him off (KILLER) and that he's in debt to a shady-type character (also KILLER). So we know that, despite being a trust-fund kid, Arnold needs money.

Take another look at THINKING CAP. Arnold is the one insisting that they have to find the money to pay off the blackmailer. He's also the one who suggests that they try to find out who it is. That goes well... for the blackmailer. Not only does the blackmailer fail to show for Arnold's surveillance, but the band then gets a note revealing that (1) the blackmailer somehow knew Arnold was there, and (2) if they ever try to do that again, the blackmailer will spill the beans.

What if...

What if Arnold is the blackmailer?

When he learns about Jeff and Sally, he sets up the whole thing as another way to get money from the band (without being caught with his hand in the petty cash). He also sets up the phony sting, giving him the perfect opportunity to make sure that no one else ever tries to trace the blackmailer and thereby eliminating the risk that he might get caught.

So if Arnold is TMAH, and Arnold is also the blackmailer, I suppose that could be two corpses if you count properly... (And it would also nicely explain Lyn's apparent forgetfulness until she's talking about the blackmailer. You'd think a third corpse would otherwise be somewhat memorable.)
[/WILD SPEC]
_________________
These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:04 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
bwochinski
Decorated

Joined: 06 Oct 2003
Posts: 164
Location: Wisconsin

 		Ok so I've been watching the videos again... (while trascribing them to the wiki) and I've got an additional theory that goes along with Arnold being the blackmailer.

I don't think that Arnold actually had a trust fund. I think he gets his money from significantly shadier dealings. (no idea what as of yet, although wouldn't that be handy for Sam?) For having a trust fund he sure seems to run into a lot of money problems, despite his boasting about knowing how to handle money. And he is able to come up with significant sums of money, despite always needing money.

In Love and Justice he says, "Yeah, my mom and dad didnt' help me out much either."
Which I can understand might just be a reference to them not being there for him, but given his response to George, I tend to read a bit more into it.

Then in Dirty Work Clean Conscience when Arnold beats Lyn, the police officer immediately profiles him as a "roughneck off the streets". Now you could say this is just biased stereotyping, but when Lyn informs the officer that Arnold was "born with a silver spoon in his mouth" rather than changing his tune to "oooh, spoiled rich kid thinks he can get away with anything", the officer is not quite ready to believe it. And given Lyn's insistance that Arnold is "just passionate", I'd say the officer is the more rational one.

Finally, we of course have Killer where Arnold owes Mr. Dillon (apparently dangerous) some money. Now he says that his parents cut him off, but I don't get why they'd cut him off at this point. I think his money juggling is just finally coming crashing down.

So... What do you guys think?
_________________
"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."
- Dresden James

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:44 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
e_nygma
Decorated

Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Maryland, US

 		Re: Arnold
Shad0 wrote:
e_nygma wrote:
The second body is discovered in DEAD FACE. Again, we know that Adam, Jeff, Lyn, Maddy. and Sally are alive based on videos during or after the fact.

We also know that Sam is alive: he's talking to Lyn about the murder in DEAD FACE itself. (Which also means that Sam isn't the earlier suicide, either.)


For reasons I don't quite fathom, I read Sam's name as Adam. Embarassed

The more I think about the first victim the less I feel like it would be George. First, losing the band's father would have been a massive loss to the band, not just something for Lyn to be sad about. Second, with only nine videos remaining, if George were to die, you'd think we'd have some hint of it before now right? Third, and I'll admit this is a long shot, George has two more videos. Okay, sure, there is no guarantee either of them are more recent than 1y6m, but other than the note to Beth & Greg is there any evidence of George thinking of jumping off a bridge?

This leads back to Jenny. It would fit in with Lyn feeling sad. It would fit in with Jenny's email to Arnold: "I've made good in the last six months. I'm working a good program. I've slipped a couple of times. But my sponsor has always been there for me." (Feb 21, 2003; do we know when the murder is supposed to take place?) Suicide sounds like something that could happen here.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:42 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
e_nygma
Decorated

Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Maryland, US
bwochinski wrote:
Ok so I've been watching the videos again... (while trascribing them to the wiki) and I've got an additional theory that goes along with Arnold being the blackmailer.

I don't think that Arnold actually had a trust fund. I think he gets his money from significantly shadier dealings. (no idea what as of yet, although wouldn't that be handy for Sam?) For having a trust fund he sure seems to run into a lot of money problems, despite his boasting about knowing how to handle money. And he is able to come up with significant sums of money, despite always needing money.


I like the theory. A another piece of evidence would be ASK QUESTIONS LATER. I don't see a silver-spoon, trust baby dropping into the middle of two burly guys and go berserk like that.

EDIT: And further evidence after Shad0's solution of Lyn's most recent puzzle. Go here to find out.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:45 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
IA20
Boot

Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 10
e_nygma wrote:

This leads back to Jenny. It would fit in with Lyn feeling sad. It would fit in with Jenny's email to Arnold: "I've made good in the last six months. I'm working a good program. I've slipped a couple of times. But my sponsor has always been there for me." (Feb 21, 2003; do we know when the murder is supposed to take place?) Suicide sounds like something that could happen here.


I'm starting to think Jenny is the suicide, too. It definitely does fit with her letter to Arnold. (I have a hard time imagining PRB going on for another year and a half without the "father of the band.") And assuming Jenny was the girl in Lyrics (and not her evil twin or something), she mentions to Abigail how it doesn't feel like she matters. So it seems to fit that it might be her. However, in her letter to Arnold she says it's been six months. She would have had to have left Arnold right after Rhythm Method, since the suicide takes place six months later. Otherwise it couldn't be her.

I was thinking maybe Arnold contacted Jenny again after her letter to him, and persuaded her to meet with him. Maybe to give back the ticket, or maybe he blackmailed her. Then he murdered her, and staged it to look like a suicide. (Or maybe I've been watching too much CSI.)

But does anyone think that there might have been two suicides since the cops say they have a jumper, but it obviously looks like the body in the photos shown is indoors and has slit wrists. Why would someone slit their wrists and jump (from where, the ceiling)? Plus the cops say they found his (the victim's) car on a bridge. Which makes it sound like the "jumper" jumped off the bridge (or at least was trying to). Yet Lyn says she found the body.

Jumping from a bridge shows impulsiveness and lack of planning. I wonder if George or Arnold saw/did something that caused one of them to attempt suicide by jumping off a bridge. The cops saying they have a "jumper," instead of saying they have a body, could refer to them having to talk someone down off the edge of the bridge. I think there could be two suicides (or one suicide/one attempt) in Double Dealer. I was thinking, it is Double Dealer, and all.


EDIT:
Okay, I was looking back through the emails and realized that George sent Arnold that letter about working everything out with the cops (presumably from the fight in Ask Questions Later) on April 10, 2003, which is nearly two months after Jenny's letter to Arnold.

We know that the Ask Questions Later video takes place 2 years, 8 months before PRB dies. Rhythm Method doesn't take place for another 8 months after that. That means that Jenny sent Arnold the letter long before the argument Lyn taped of them in Arnold's car. So Jenny had to have come back to Arnold after she sent that letter saying she never wanted to hear from him again.

I'm not sure it really means much, but I find it interesting that Jenny would go back to Arnold after calling him the devil and all. Maybe she'd fallen off the wagon again?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:09 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
e_nygma
Decorated

Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Maryland, US
IA20 wrote:
I'm not sure it really means much, but I find it interesting that Jenny would go back to Arnold after calling him the devil and all. Maybe she'd fallen off the wagon again?


[SPEC]Well, if Arnold's money wasn't so much from a trust fund but drug sales, he could have been her dealer. She gets away and warns him off (he contacted her to bring a customer back into the fold). Eventually, she sucumbs and meets up with him. As she falls back down the well, she finds she couldn't afford to pay him, so she sold her body one time (or more). One of those occassions she becomes pregnant. They go to seedy abortion doctor.

At this point, I am of two minds: Arnold killed her or she jumped (which would mean Arnold killed her indirectly).[/SPEC]

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:10 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
vidstudent
Decorated


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 244
Location: Toledo, OH

 		Can I make a historical guess on the bodies (while we've flown completely off topic)?

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Arnold could be one, but if we're looking for two people who died closely to each other, I say it's Jeff and Adam. I see Sally's waiting for Jeff to come back from writing as De Nile. History notes that John Adams and Thomas Jefferson died on the same day, still trying to outdo each other. (John said on his deathbed, "Thomas Jefferson survives." He didn't know he won by a couple of hours.) Mr. Arnold could be a third body if necessary.

_________________
Nicholas Eckert
vidstudent

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:29 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

 		Re: body count
vidstudent wrote:
Can I make a historical guess on the bodies (while we've flown completely off topic)?

Both Adam and Jeff are still alive after the electrocution. (See DEAD FACE and FACADE, respectively.) The suicide is six months earlier (DOUBLE DEALER). Thus, neither of those corpses is Adam or Jeff.

Plus, according to Sally, Jeff is still around today.
_________________
These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:58 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Caspian
Decorated


Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 265
Location: Milwaukee

 		Re: body count
Shad0 wrote:
Plus, according to Sally, Jeff is still around today.


Yes, let's talk about Sally a bit shall we? Is anyone else completely creeped out by this girl? I mean, at first I was just annoyed and pledged my allegiance to the We Hate Sally Club. But now I'm very creeped out and getting suspicious. Check out the About Me page of Sally's website.

Sally wrote:
Well, sometimes I'm sad. When Jeff is away. Like right now. He goes off to write. I know that's what he has to do. But I miss him...Jeff brought me all the way out here to Seattle. He said we had to be together...I was with him because I love him so much. And he loves me so much...And even when I said I wanted to go home, he said, "Baby, baby I need you. I need you if I'm going to write anything at all."


This is obviously incongruent with what we find out in the Sweet Cheat video. The video makes it sound like Sally forced herself upon Jeff using some incriminating (morally, if not legally) photos. She sounds like she's convincing herself that she and Jeff are in love. And where exactly is Jeff, anyway? I have a suspicion Sally plays a larger part in all this than we have been giving her credit. I'm not saying I am fully convinced this is true, but I'm just gonna float this out there:

THEORY: Sally framed Lyn for the murder to break up the band and have Jeff (JEFF!) all herself.

Any ideas?
_________________
"I - I don't think I do, Sir," said Caspian. "I'm only a kid."
"Good," said Aslan. "If you had felt yourself sufficient, it would have been a proof that you were not ."

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:17 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address
 Back to top 
ScarpeGrosseModerator
Site Admin


Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1678
Location: The Shiny Castle in the Sky, Full of Cotton Candy and Hazelnut Lattes

 		Re: body count
caspian_x wrote:
I mean, at first I was just annoyed and pledged my allegiance to the We Hate Sally Club.


WOOT! WHSC ROCKS!

caspian_x wrote:
But now I'm very creeped out and getting suspicious. Check out the About Me page of Sally's website.

Sally wrote:
Well, sometimes I'm sad. When Jeff is away. Like right now. He goes off to write. I know that's what he has to do. But I miss him...Jeff brought me all the way out here to Seattle. He said we had to be together...I was with him because I love him so much. And he loves me so much...And even when I said I wanted to go home, he said, "Baby, baby I need you. I need you if I'm going to write anything at all."


This is obviously incongruent with what we find out in the Sweet Cheat video. The video makes it sound like Sally forced herself upon Jeff using some incriminating (morally, if not legally) photos. She sounds like she's convincing herself that she and Jeff are in love. And where exactly is Jeff, anyway? I have a suspicion Sally plays a larger part in all this than we have been giving her credit. I'm not saying I am fully convinced this is true, but I'm just gonna float this out there:

THEORY: Sally framed Lyn for the murder to break up the band and have Jeff (JEFF!) all herself.

Any ideas?


Sally is a creepy creepy creepo who's nuts. However, despite her obsessiveness over Jeff (JEFF!), I, to this date, have yet to find anything in her manner or demeanor that I would consider to be "SMART" or capable of doing something as complicated as murder with a frame. I mean, great googlie mooglie! SHE'S DUMB. Obsessed, yes. But also very dumb.

Of course, this could all be a front for her more manipulative eviltude.

I think Jeff has scooted away somewhere and is trying to rid himself of Sally. I wonder if she's even pregnant or if it's one of those "Imaginings of Pregnancy" that some women are privy to. I demand Bump pictures! But anyways, as I was postulating, either Jeff (EGAD - Emo Git with Acrimonious Doodling in his journal) is dead, or he's run off with Hot Thighs Madison Rose.

Also, Sally is weird.
_________________
Allow me to take off my 'assistant skirt' and put on my 'Barbara Streisand in The Prince of Tides ass-masking therapist pantsuit.'

Tumblr

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:23 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
Caspian
Decorated


Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 265
Location: Milwaukee

 		Re: body count
ScarpeGrosse wrote:
Sally is a creepy creepy creepo who's nuts. However, despite her obsessiveness over Jeff (JEFF!), I, to this date, have yet to find anything in her manner or demeanor that I would consider to be "SMART" or capable of doing something as complicated as murder with a frame. I mean, great googlie mooglie! SHE'S DUMB. Obsessed, yes. But also very dumb.

Agreed. My guess is that something is not alright in the brainpan. However, that doesn't mean she's too dumb to kill somebody. And perhaps the framing of Lyn was merely circumstantial - assuming Arnold is TMAH, his physical abuse of Lyn could be the reason she's a primary suspect.

ScarpeGrosse wrote:
I wonder if she's even pregnant or if it's one of those "Imaginings of Pregnancy" that some women are privy to.

Or, perhaps she's just completely lost touch with reality and has convinced herself that she's pregnant, much like she's convinced herself Jeff loves her and asked her to come to him. Either way...very creeped out.

EDIT: I have now officialy entered into the realm of attempted character interaction. We'll see if I get any reply...
_________________
"I - I don't think I do, Sir," said Caspian. "I'm only a kid."
"Good," said Aslan. "If you had felt yourself sufficient, it would have been a proof that you were not ."

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:44 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address
 Back to top 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 2 [18 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
View previous topicView next topic
 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Ephemeral » ARG: EDOC Laundry
Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group