unforum

[FranG]

Gee, Guys, I didn't think it would start a controversy. It was just a little dig at themandotcom's arithmetic.

[Jim]

Re: Off Tangent

[Guin]

Re: Add?

[Sh1ft]

[Guest]

As we already know that entropy has many meanings on this card, I think there is a main reason why it feautures on this card.

The focus I think is on the word "wins":

By saying "if entropy wins outward looks should leave you cold" I think it means that if you shuffle the cards/text first you wont be able to get any further. Maybe it wants you to do something else first then shuffle, possibly using the SHUFFLED FOURTH PRIME somewhere. There could be another cipher at work here.

Also in terms of cryptic clues:

"...outward looks should leave you cold"

This could mean that when decrypted, if you look at the ends, you end up with the first and last letters being:

co..........ld or some variation

So another meaning of the clue could be telling you that when you have shuffled the first and last letters are as above giving you a starting point.

There is not just one way of reading it and I think the clue is not clear enough to guide you to an answer unless there is another purpose for it.

[sirichj]

Entropy

[Nerd]

this is excellent, and it has set me off in a direction for understanding the design of the cards ..i'll read more into it then post some stuff

[Nerd]

i think the images on the card has alot to do with space and time, but cnt think how this relates the the message..

[Si richj]

Is this any help

[themandotcom]

Si richj Welcome to the Shuffled thread. I guess you havent been here and unficiton long (or ever?) but that has been discused in Super great detail throught out 2 threads, please consult the Wiki for more info this is definatly trout worthy ::

[BBuck]

A trout is a teeny bit harsh: can't remember seeing this site before (it's a good summary, even if it doesn't add much new).

However, in future, please either add a link using the Insert URL command or use the Code command to ensure the formatting doesn't go completely screwy. This will help keep the (second) Shuffled thread manageable. Preview is also a useful thing.

[Grizy]

Si richj,

Welcome to PXC.
If you register and login on Unfiction it gives you the option
to edit your posts.



Grizy

[yggdrasila]

A quick thought, that I don't believe I've seen elsewhere, and hopefully not too clueless, as I am far from a crypto and having quite a time trying to wrap my head around the Solitaire cipher. Is it possible to do the Solitaire cipher with two decks, rather than one?

I ask because on the card, the little widgety thing in the middle of the card pack graphic points precisely north-south, almost exactly from one corner of the deck to the other, and it occurs to me that a way to make two decks out of one (and thus solving the 108-character problem) would be to cut the cards in half. Presuming that Garnet was in possession of scissors.

(another possibility would be a compass direction, since that's the design, but a., the line is not on a specific compass point as depicted, and b., I don't see how that might fit in.)

One other little thing: I do note that the whispered text contains a remarkable number of the letters of the alphabet, including all the vowels. The only letters not in the sentence are "bgjkmqvxz" - it seems possible that the whispered sentence contains all the letters present in the message itself.

hopefully trout-less,
ygg

[justdig]

Well, my theory is that the 108 characters of text are not, in fact, decryptable with solitaire, and instead use a keystream generated by the cards. Yeah, you've got 54 cards and 108 characters. And, guess what, every card can be described by two characters. 10 of hearts is TH or HT, jack of clubs is JC or CJ, etc.

Clues supporting the theory:
-"Outside looks will leave you cold", "if you're feeling cold you're oversensitive". Sounds like seeing the outside text may actually be a bad thing. This theory uses only the inside text.

-Solution that uses playing cards.

-Will actually be solvable, no password guessing.

-Desipite all the focus on the solitaire cipher and attempts to get passwords from the whispered text, no progress has been made. That suggests that an alternative method may be needed.


Clues going against the theory:
-A 54-card deck has two jokers. My assumption is that these would be wild-cards. Or possibly JO. Something like that.

-One of the jokers had a star. This points to the Solitaire cipher. One possibility is that the text decoded using the main theory will give a clue as to a key for the solitaire cipher, which will then be used to decode the outside text. Either that or it'll just tell us about the solitaire cipher, and the eck order used for decrypting the text will be used as the deck order for deciphering.

-The existance of the outside text. This could either just be a plain red herring, as I said in my first point in favour of the theory, or it could be the text which would be deciphered using the solitaire cipher as per my previous point.



I've made a useless, messy spreadsheet which didn't really get anywhere and tried to do some statistical analysis which also didn't really get anywhere. Attempts to make a start manually were pretty useless, and I don't have the programming knowledge to do it that way. Anybody want to try a brute-forcer which will search for dictionary words and/or specific words such as "DJINN" or "WORM" or "PASS", or whatever?

[themandotcom]

Justdig, I'm not sure that i get your theory.... Isn't solitare a keystream generated by a deck of cards? Yeah... i think it is, but decrypting with 2 decks.... hmm interesting, I would have to say no, because how would we know how mind candy did the cut count, triple cut ect. and what about the extra 2 jokers in there? unused i presume? i guess it would be a cool idea if someone could think of a way to implement it... good idea thou, i knwo i havent heard of it..


Just a quick thought, maybe due to the fact that the deck has 54 cards, and there is 108 characters, can we try to solve iit that way. Like the 54th letter, M and the 108th letter L are encrypted with the same keystream number. So can we try to crack it that way, and maybe get the keystream?? I'm not sure that'll work?