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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[Puzzle] #243 Silver - Shuffled Part 2 (Read 1st Post!)
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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Asib
Boot

Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 28

 		Look at this spot thru a magnifying glass the u should see it normally Very Happy
[/img]
number 4.JPG
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number 4.JPG

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:40 am
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domroberts
Veteran


Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 108
Location: England

 		From today's PXC newsletter :
Quote:
all that's left is the sound of puzzlers collectively slamming their heads against their desks, desperately trying to understand the infernal logic behind Shuffled.

I'm intrigued by the use of the words "infernal logic". Obviously it is a cipher, but maybe we should be looking at the card in a more *logical* fashion, instead of assuming that all we need to do is find a solitaire keyword? We have had a few cards already based on Wittgenstein and NAND gates etc, so we know the puzzle scribes like their logical problems Smile

Following on from Asib, I do see the "4", and am also interested in the way the gold strip appears to be broken up - on a real pack of cards it would be a solid piece of gold plastic thread. I can tell the image is heavily photoshopped though so it could just be flash-reflections.

That is where my thoughts stop I'm afraid, but it was worth a mention.

Dom

EDIT - looking closer, I can safely say the "4" is just where one of the radiating lines from the bike meets one of the odd glowy artifacts (mentioned above) on the gold strip, so is likely only coincidence. Well spotted though!

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:02 am
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fretty
Decorated

Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 281
Location: South Yorkshire, England

 		If this card relies on logic then It could be that it relies on "Earth's Destiny" logic.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:44 am
Last edited by fretty on Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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domroberts
Veteran


Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 108
Location: England

 		Heh, you mean logic fuzzier than a big fuzzy bear Smile

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:45 am
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fretty
Decorated

Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 281
Location: South Yorkshire, England

 		No, worse than that, fuzzier than 10 big fuzzy bears in a big fuzzy tent, all making up logic-less puzzles

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:48 am
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makomk
Boot

Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 56

 		Re: Perfect shuffles
FranG wrote:
Not quite right, anansi:

Quote:
It has been shown that eight perfect out-shuffles returns the 52-card deck to its original order. Apparently, it takes more in-shuffles to do that.

52 in-shuffles, if memory serves me correctly. (I read several Martin Gardner books when I was younger...) Of course, given the difficulty of getting a perfect riffle shuffle, I doubt anyone would actually try such a thing.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:40 pm
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Cinana
Boot

Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Washington State, USA

 		Anagram of Inferno Logic:
Enforcing oil
Conifer login
Conifer lingo
lol, ceiling of nor
hmm, ice floor ginn
nice flooring
nice golf iron Rolling Eyes
plus a bunch of names...but if you continue....
clone info rig
core of lining
plus a few unmentionable politically incorrect bad words

There must be about 2000 different ways of anagraming just those 2 words. You can take a look and see if there is any "scientific meanings" that I could have missed. (i'm rather tired...and my eyes are closing fast.

ahh, waht are we to do with this?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:09 am
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Cabbage
Unfettered


Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 320
Location: North-East England, UK

 		Errm, wasn't it Infernal Logic?

Surely just a reference to the hellishness of this card... Confused

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:15 am
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Cinana
Boot

Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Washington State, USA

 		omg, yeah

Doh! i was really tired last night. I shouldn't have been online.

Well, you all get the idea anyway.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:10 pm
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makomk
Boot

Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 56

 		I just had the strange idea of treating the 108-letter block as 54 letter pairs that had been shuffled, then reordering the cards in the same fashion. No luck, alas.

However, I did get a slightly interesting result from what I think is equivalent to taking a pack of cards in the standard Solitaire cypher starting order, writing a letter pair on each in order (so 1 gets WB, 2 gets BM, etc), sorting them into alphabetical order in one of the 4 possible ways, then using the deck to encrypt the heat-sensitive letters using Solitaire:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
FFZWD WWIMJ VOUQT ZLZZZ


Totally meaningless, but you can see it's very definitely not random either. The fact that the triple-letter is at the end is probably also promising, given that you're supposed to pad the end with Xs if using Solitaire for encryption.

The Python program I used (mkshuffle.py) is attached - feel free to play with it. It takes no options, you need to edit it to modify what it does, and it's not particularly cleanly-written - it's just a quick-and-dirty hack. It uses a GPLed Python implementation of Solitaire I got off Schneier's website (Solitaire.py, included).

Well, I suppose it was worth a try...

Edit: Also, if you haven't read the Wikipedia entry on Bicycle Playing Cards yet, do - it (probably) won't help you, but it's still an interesting read.
mkshuffle.zip
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:41 pm
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RedZed333
Boot


Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Sunderland

 		New Direction.......
Like most people my head is starting to hurt from the long hours of banging it against a brick wall (it's not doing the wall much good either) so I've done away with all thoughts of ciphers and codes for the moment and looked at the card and its contents differently and I've come up with a new idea that I don't think anyone else has tried or mentioned.

It concerns the Yellow Strip Seal that goes across the pack.

If Garnet had opened the pack why isn't the Seal missing? It's still there, or, more interestingly, most of it is still there.

I've scanned the card to 1200dpi and focused along the strip and parts of it have clearly been scratched off leaving gaps along the length.

I increased the magification of the strip and the 'coded' letters and, with the magic of Photoshop CS, superimposed them and they are both the same length and the gaps can be lined up with the letters leaving some letters exposed and others covered up.

I also printed the strip and letters on some acetate to try the same but I can't see any obvious message or clue so I think fresh eyes are needed(that's you lot) to perhaps see something I can't see for looking.

One final note, why does everyone talk about the 'disappearing text'? When I got my card that text was invisible, it was only later when I was in a cooler environment that the letters suddenly appeared. This could have been the the same for Grant. Maybe we do need all 128 letters.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:28 am
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BBuck
Decorated

Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 184

 		Re: New Direction.......
RedZed333 wrote:
Like most people my head is starting to hurt from the long hours of banging it against a brick wall (it's not doing the wall much good either) so I've done away with all thoughts of ciphers and codes for the moment and looked at the card and its contents differently and I've come up with a new idea that I don't think anyone else has tried or mentioned.


It has come up before - see my post here.

I couldn't get anywhere with it though, probably because I don't have a scanner, so was operating with paper and pencil to try and overlay on the letters. Stratman was sceptical that the scratches were anything more than light reflecting on the pack, and then we headed off in a different direction. But I still think it's worth exploring more.

Can you post your results up here?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:45 am
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RedZed333
Boot


Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Sunderland

 		Re: New Direction.......
BBuck wrote:
It has come up before - see my post here.


Sorry BBuck, you have indeed beat me to the line on this one, I'm surprised it hasn't been developed further.

I'll see if I can post the scan so oyhers can play around with it.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:28 am
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BBuck
Decorated

Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 184

 		Re: New Direction.......
RedZed333 wrote:
Sorry BBuck, you have indeed beat me to the line on this one, I'm surprised it hasn't been developed further.

I'll see if I can post the scan so oyhers can play around with it.


No problems at all: I'm not worried about who thought of it first, and you've taken it a lot further than I did.

I think you might have problems with posting the scan at 1200 dpi because of Mind Candy rules. Could you perhaps just post the letters you can see through the acetate?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:30 pm
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Kradlum
Boot


Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 69
Location: London

 		Sorry if any of this has been brought up before, but the wiki page has disappeared so I had to read it on a cached version at google. I started reading the original thread, but when my eyes started beeding I had to stop.

Has anyone actually tried using either "if entropy wins, outward looks should leave you cold" or just "outward looks should leave you cold" as the key to set a Solitaire deck? I don't want to spend the night replicating someone else's failure.

[edit]
Ok, so I can't get further than about the 8th iteration before something distracts me and I have to start again Sad
[/edit]

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:23 pm
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