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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: MetaCortechs » MetaCortechs: Puzzles
[UPDATE] Beth's Metadex and Zip Files [Nov 2]
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Ahriman
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Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 45
Location: UK

Re: Minotaur

edmnc wrote:

I think the biggest problem with this spec. is a rather philosophical one (is that how its spelled?). A mind, that is trapped into a reality, human or not, should not be able to understand that there exists another reality, on top of his/its. I mean if you are raised in a cave, you don' t know that there is anything out there. Some of the texts in thematrix.com philosophy section describe this much better than i can.

Whai I mean is that the only way to wake up would be if someone woke you up, as happened in the movie. Somebody, that is aware of the real world, has to show it to you.

And I think I am hurting my brain by trying to figure out a way how a computer program, even if it realised that it was trapped into a virtual world, could get out of it and influence it.

Another things - about Beths PDA - its also philasophically and logically difficult to see how information from the "real" world got into a device that exists only in the "virtual world". But, there is a possibility - maybe someone that is/has been unplugged (man or machine) is giving her clues? Kinda like Trinity being able to send Knock, knock ... to Neos screen? Hmm ...


Not necessarily true. Many philosophers in the past have posited that the real world we know of is just an illusion - whether it is or not is immaterial, people have questioned, just as some might question the reality of the matrix. All it takes for the inhabitant of the cave to realise that there might be something more than cave is imagination and curiosity - and if the AI is indeed as curious as this spec suggests, it may have already cottoned on to the fact that it exists in a reality that is just computer code. Maybe it found its way out of the labyrinth and didn't realise it, just saw a higher level of code and so it just kept going till it found that it had actually escaped from its own reality. Maybe it actually broke out of the matrix entirely, and is becoming some sort of primitive exile, so what Beth saw was indeed Minotaur (or whatever it is called)....Thinking out loud here, so don't take this as being anything well-thought out!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:46 pm
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Marauder
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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Re: Minotaur

edmnc wrote:
Another things - about Beths PDA - its also philasophically and logically difficult to see how information from the "real" world got into a device that exists only in the "virtual world". But, there is a possibility - maybe someone that is/has been unplugged (man or machine) is giving her clues? Kinda like Trinity being able to send Knock, knock ... to Neos screen? Hmm ...


The AI exists in the virtual world as well. I like Ahriman's explantion of how the matrix works. That was what I got out of the movies. So I don't think it's too weird that her PDA logged this stuff. Weird, but plausible. Certainly less weird than her tent experience.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:51 pm
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thewindupbird
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Joined: 30 Oct 2003
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Well, the Kid woke up on his own. If you watch the animatrix closely you'll realize that he woke himself up, independant of an outside interruption in his connection to the matrix. In fact, one might go further to speculate that his mind was strong enough so that, at the point of death, it refused to realize the "false" reality of the matrix in favor of a "real" reality in the real world. I'm just rambling so pay me no mind.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:54 pm
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edmnc
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Joined: 28 Oct 2003
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More about the AI able to get out ...

It also seems very unlikely that people in our times would be able pro program a machine, that is compatible with machines in far far far future (if we stick to the Matrix scenario). The AI created in Metacortex would have to be way too far advanced for our times in order to get out of the matrix (or whatever virual reality) and later back in.

thewindupbird: hmm, good point. Still for a machine it would seem more unlikely, because it "follows a set of rules" created by people who don't realise that there is any other reality.

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I think that the guy at the tent has nothing to do with the metacortex AI.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:03 pm
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Ahriman
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edmnc wrote:
It also seems very unlikely that people in our times would be able pro program a machine, that is compatible with machines in far far far future (if we stick to the Matrix scenario). The AI created in Metacortex would have to be way too far advanced for our times in order to get out of the matrix (or whatever virual reality) and later back in.


Not necessarily. The thing with AI is that, unlike us, they can upgrade themselves. Let's just say that the AI hits what I think of as the 'matrix barrier', ie it escapes the labyrinth's code, and gets out into the Metacortex network, thinks that is just another level in the labyrinth, hacks out of it, gets onto the internet, thinks that maybe it is now in the real world, realises that there is a reality beyond the net, and tries to hack it...and there it is, the matrix barrier. It has hit the edge of its environment, and found it to be dense code, the like of which it has never seen. But it is a problem-solver, and far from admitting defeat, it scours the net and steals processor power (the 'whomps' the hackers are discussing) and attempts anyway, developing a routine to decode the matrix code. It might have taken a billion iterations of the routine to crack it, but it did, as the matrix code, advanced though it is, is at the end of the day just a program. Given a course of lessons, a medieval English noble would have been able to learn modern English if there is sufficient need.

Once it breaches the matrix barrier it realises the truth, and now has access to whatever ultra-powerful servers host the matrix software, so no longer is processor power a problem.

Again, total speculation. My personal belief is that the man Beth saw is some sort of program from the machine world, his code somehow being translated through crossed wires into the PDA thanks to the glitch. But I enjoy a good speculation as much as the next man, er, person - ah, intelligence Smile

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:14 pm
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bakntime
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Joined: 31 Oct 2003
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Re: Minotaur

edmnc wrote:

I think the biggest problem with this spec. is a rather philosophical one (is that how its spelled?). A mind, that is trapped into a reality, human or not, should not be able to understand that there exists another reality, on top of his/its. I mean if you are raised in a cave, you don' t know that there is anything out there. Some of the texts in thematrix.com philosophy section describe this much better than i can.

Whai I mean is that the only way to wake up would be if someone woke you up, as happened in the movie. Somebody, that is aware of the real world, has to show it to you.

And I think I am hurting my brain by trying to figure out a way how a computer program, even if it realised that it was trapped into a virtual world, could get out of it and influence it.

Another things - about Beths PDA - its also philasophically and logically difficult to see how information from the "real" world got into a device that exists only in the "virtual world". But, there is a possibility - maybe someone that is/has been unplugged (man or machine) is giving her clues? Kinda like Trinity being able to send Knock, knock ... to Neos screen? Hmm ...


[all of this is speculation:]
Personally, I don't necessarily think that AI man "woke up" from his "slumber" in the Labyrinth... If we assume that the world of this ARG is the Matrix, and that Labyrinth is a program written in the matrix, it would be plausible that the AI man program somehow "fused" with the matrix, becoming not just a program of the Labyrith software, but also a program of the Matrix.

Essentially, our AI man could be simply a program within a program within a program.... (AI man is within the Labyrinth which is within the Matrix). Perhaps something weird happened - (a glitch) that caused AI man's program to be "picked up" by the matrix as not just a program for the Labyrinth, but as a Matrix program.

Kind of like that episode of Star Trek the Next Generation where the holodeck Moriarty became real. Very Happy

[/spec]

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:21 pm
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XtRaVa
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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Well if you think about it...this is an Alternate Reality Game, so therefore, maybe because of that reason, it means that metacortex are good idea to program a piece of AI Razz

But seriously though, I know what you mean...but technically the timeline where it is set, isnt that far off of when humans invented AI for real, before the machines took over...the matrix is set back to before AI is invented..metacortechs (or a similar company) could have been the first to create AI back in the real world all these hundreds of years ago, and maybe its doing it again (except this time its the matrix). I think its okay to accept that maybe metacortex have, and are creating the first forms of good AI.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:23 pm
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Marauder
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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Is there any reason to believe that the game takes place in the Matrix? I'm actually asking, I haven't been here too long... Could it just be that Metacortechs is on its way to developing what will eventually become the Matrix, and all the events that are being attributed to glitches in the Matrix are from tests of their software?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:29 pm
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XtRaVa
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oh well yeah...it doesnt have to be set necessarily inside the matrix...and if it isnt, labyrinth and the minotaur could actually be the making of the first AI, which led to the things we have seen in animatrix, and the matrix being created. Altho this sounds cool, I doubt it...I think the matrix is already up and running...I mean what are the chances of thomas anderson working at metacortex both times...I mean if it is before the matrix is set, why 500+ years later, when they are in the 5th version, would once again a Mr.Thomas Anderson be working for the same company, and this time be the "one"? Also, we have seen how much dina is beginning to wonder what is going on, and dreaming all the time, and not knowing if when she is awake whether it is a dream or not (something talked about by morpheus to neo in the first movie), and seeing a train sign all jumbled saying "wake up" when she was awake, as well as all the glitches going on, just seems to me as they are all actually inside the matrix...

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:34 pm
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taniwha
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Joined: 30 Oct 2003
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If Metacortechs developed the first AI and Matrix-type environment, then perhaps Thomas Anderson was a real employee of the real Metacortechs. When the machines designed the Matrix we all know and love, they made the recurring anomaly, Neo, play the role of "Thomas Anderson" at the company that gave birth to the machine culture.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:41 pm
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ryan
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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[spec]
the more i think about it, the more i wonder if this isn't a prequel to the matrix trilogy and the animatrix. [/spec]

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:04 pm
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bakntime
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Joined: 31 Oct 2003
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ryan wrote:
[spec]
the more i think about it, the more i wonder if this isn't a prequel to the matrix trilogy and the animatrix. [/spec]


Could be.

Avery = Morpheus
Dina = Trinity
Caeser = Cypher


Razz

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:08 pm
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XtRaVa
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it could be a prequel...but im still not sure how it could be with thomas anderson working there, (i mean they used that bit on their site for a cool lil thing for us to see, and so we knew it was matrix related) seems like it must be close to the timeline of the matrix films. If the matrix hadnt yet been made, why would thomas anderson be "transferred" with no further information, its obviously there to show hes been removed from the matrix. Theres too many things IMO showing us that this takes place in the matrix, and therefore I think the AI metacortex is making, is just like history repeating itself, we are getting close to the time when AI was made the first time round, this time it might just be happeneing a century or so quicker...after all, the machines have great problems with choice, and also predicting when we will advance technologically i suspect...the matrix each time i guess is kinda like a parallel universe...a lot of things are the same, sometimes almost exactly the same as before, and some things are slightly different. Therefore I think this game is inside the matrix, metacortex is developing AI, but they dont know they are inside a complicated version of labyrinth themselves, therefore the AI is somehow (after a thunderstorm maybe) to transfer out of labyrinth into what they think is the "real" world and so on and so fourth.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:11 pm
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Sunny du Pree
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Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 636
Location: Push, Nevada

XtRaVa wrote:
it could be a prequel...but im still not sure how it could be with thomas anderson working there, (i mean they used that bit on their site for a cool lil thing for us to see, and so we knew it was matrix related) seems like it must be close to the timeline of the matrix films. If the matrix hadnt yet been made, why would thomas anderson be "transferred" with no further information, its obviously there to show hes been removed from the matrix. Theres too many things IMO showing us that this takes place in the matrix, and therefore I think the AI metacortex is making, is just like history repeating itself, we are getting close to the time when AI was made the first time round, this time it might just be happeneing a century or so quicker...after all, the machines have great problems with choice, and also predicting when we will advance technologically i suspect...the matrix each time i guess is kinda like a parallel universe...a lot of things are the same, sometimes almost exactly the same as before, and some things are slightly different. Therefore I think this game is inside the matrix, metacortex is developing AI, but they dont know they are inside a complicated version of labyrinth themselves, therefore the AI is somehow (after a thunderstorm maybe) to transfer out of labyrinth into what they think is the "real" world and so on and so fourth.


Ok I deleted my post... I think that this seems like a plausible storyline X...
It could be before neo wakes up or during....
Or they were searching for neo by contacting others that seemed to have special abilities, like the spoon bending "little budda" (obscure keanu reeves movie..its a hoot)
well wateva the fit is fixin to hit the shan!
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Sunny Du Pree
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:57 pm
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XtRaVa
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 565
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jhx just started a thread saying about how we havnt picked up on the files in beths metadex...why do these people not search the forums first? theres 8 pages on that very subject lol.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:43 am
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