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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Purple Puzzle Cards
#189 - Purple - Multithreaded
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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Curlytek
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 112
Location: Melbourne, Australia
almagest wrote:
I still do not get this. The answer works, but why?

Note that the solve box does not say the answer is in metres, it just tells you not to input the units. The answer certainly cannot be in metres, it would be far too big. But it is hard to see how it could be cm either. Taking things like 8x the distance from the centre to the labelled notches gives around 323cm, which does not work as cm or as m. Going from labelled notch to labelled notch does not work. Ignoring the labels and going fom the centre to every notch does not seem to work either.

fretty, could you explain more precisely what you did? I got 323cm from what I think you did!


The quote box DOES say the answer is in meters (give answer to the nearest meter), it just says not to put the 'm' in. I also do not see how to arrive at the given answer. I don't know whether the beads are important or not, but if we need to go through each notch 4 times, when we 'start', we will have gone through one notch without using any 'length' of thread, which means that any 8x multiplier should really be a 7x multiplier.

Still, if people got the answer that quickly, there must be a method that works exactly as the puzzle writer intended....anyone?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:22 pm
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Rifflesby
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Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 23
Location: Mesa, AZ

 		My guess is, the dots show you which order to thread your, er, thread, from notch to notch. Run a thread from the first notch (1 bead) across the card to the 2-bead notch, then behind the card, coming up at 3, then down at 4, and so on. Note that 5 and 6 are one notch further around the card than 1 and 2. Therefore 7 is the notch after 3, 8 is the notch after 4, 9 is the notch after 5, and so on.

When you've gone through each notch four times, then presumably you'll have 36m worth of thread. That's my guess, anyway, I haven't actually tried it.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:51 am
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almagest
Boot

Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: London

 		If you are right, Curlytek, and we are told to give the answer in metres, then I am even more confused. The longest distance on the card (the diagonal) is only about 1/6 metre, so how do we get well over a hundred diagonals worth of thread?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:28 am
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aliendial
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Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 3438
Location: Far Far Away. Nowhere Near You. Really.

 		almagest - it takes 48 passes just to do the card once, or 96 if you assume that really means once across the front and then across the back. "over a hundred" is low.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:18 am
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Magma
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 119
fretty wrote:
Confirmed solve:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I used pythagorus to get the lengths in terms of notches, multiplied it by 4 and then by 0.5 as each notch is 0.5cm. Then when converted to meters I got an answer of 36m



How can that work? there is a 2mm gap between the side notches and the top ones, so did you add the extra distance on as a fraction of a notch?

I worked out the length of each line by the same method in metres, and confirmed by measuring a few that I was getting the right distances. I then multiplied the value by four, only to get an answer about 10 metres too short. Even if I add on the lengths you would get from the reverse threads around the edge, it doesn't compensate.

Any chance of a worked, step by step solution? I'd hate to put an answer in just because "someone else said it was right" and I can't see what I'm doing wrong here.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:25 pm
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richpaul
Boot

Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 11
Spoiler (Rollover to View):

if you measure all the 96 lines and sum their lengths they add upto roughly 4500mm.
Multiply that by 2 to get the lengths of lines on the back as the thread wraps round the back.
Multiply that by 4 to add in the number of round trips and you get just over 36 meters.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:11 pm
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almagest
Boot

Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: London

 		Well, I have two problems with that.
(1) the total seems to be 6.36m, not 4.5m;
(2) what about the orange beads?

If you *exclude* the lines with orange beads, then I think you get 2 off the answer, which is getting closer!

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:44 pm
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richpaul
Boot

Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 11
almagest wrote:
Well, I have two problems with that.
(1) the total seems to be 6.36m, not 4.5m;
(2) what about the orange beads?

If you *exclude* the lines with orange beads, then I think you get 2 off the answer, which is getting closer!


If you punch a hole in the center of the card to thread the cotton through and you dont go to the edge of the card, only to the start of the notch, then it works. I suppose it depends how big you made your hole though.

I have no idea about the orange beads except for the sequence of threading, but that really makes no odds.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:48 pm
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Curlytek
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 112
Location: Melbourne, Australia
richpaul wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):

if you measure all the 96 lines and sum their lengths they add upto roughly 4500mm.
Multiply that by 2 to get the lengths of lines on the back as the thread wraps round the back.
Multiply that by 4 to add in the number of round trips and you get just over 36 meters.


This would only work if you start and end in the centre of the card. Otherwise, there shouldn't be an 8x multiplier for going through each notch 4 times, it should be a 7x multiplier (because if starting at a notch, you go through it initially with a negligible amount of thread). But why start at the centre of the card? And then the beads would be meaningless, where Riff pointed out a pattern to them (one I couldn't see myself, not through lack of trying) that suggests they have meaning. A confusing card/answer, hopefully wen the season is over there will be official worked answers to all cards from MC!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:30 am
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almagest
Boot

Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: London

 		richpaul, are you sure it works? 4500/96 = 47. It has got to be a pretty big hole to give that as an average distance to the notches. - bigger, for example than the black area. Even if I enlarge the hole to the orange square thing in the middle I still get over 5250.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:33 am
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arnezami
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Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 136
Rifflesby wrote:
My guess is, the dots show you which order to thread your, er, thread, from notch to notch. Run a thread from the first notch (1 bead) across the card to the 2-bead notch, then behind the card, coming up at 3, then down at 4, and so on. Note that 5 and 6 are one notch further around the card than 1 and 2. Therefore 7 is the notch after 3, 8 is the notch after 4, 9 is the notch after 5, and so on.

When you've gone through each notch four times, then presumably you'll have 36m worth of thread. That's my guess, anyway, I haven't actually tried it.


I think you're on to something here. But I believe it should be done slightly different:

1) Start at the position of the 1-bead and go to the exact opposite (not to the 2-bead notch)
2) On the back go to the 2-bead notch.
3) Go from the 2-bead notch to the exact opposite again
4) On the back go to the 3-bead notch.
5) Go from the 3-bead notch to the exact opposite again
6) On the back go to the 4-bead notch.
7) Go from the 4-bead notch to the exact opposite again
8) On the back go to the 5-bead notch. (this is the equvalent of the 1-bead notch so now goto step 1)

Go on with this until you gone through all nothes 4 times.

(keep in mind all the beads shift 1 notch clockwise each loop of 8 steps)

It would however be a pain the *** to calculate all the distances on the back. Maybe in excel its easier.

The idea is this technique would take less thread than if you would go fully across the back of the card each time. And it would take more than if you would simply go to the next notch on the back each time. Thus very likely solving our problem here.

Do I make any sense here?

Regards,

arnezami

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:48 am
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Wyllo
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Bristol

 		You're all making this way too complicated!!! All you need is a photocopier, an A6 piece of card (assuming you're not going to cut up the real card) and a very long piece of thread.

Not sure what to spoiler, and what to not, so I'll just the spoiler the whole next bit (instructions of what to do, but not giving answer):

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

The beads do indeed give you the first few moves. The two sets of four orange curves also show where the thread should curve around.
After photocopying the card, cut it out and stick it on the piece of card to keep it stiff. Next, get a craft knife / hobby knife / sharp kitchen knife, and cut down each of the dotted lines going around the edge, stopping when it touches the solid lines that go through the centre.
Tie a knot in one end of the thread, and slide it into the notch you have cut where the single orange bead is, so the knot is underneath the card, with the thread coming out of the front. Pass the thread across the front of the card and through the notch with 2 beads, then round the back of the card to come up through the notch with 3 beads. Over the front to the 4 beads, across the back to the 5 beads, and over the front to the 6 beads.
You've got a pattern now, so continue going over and under to the next notch along in the sequence. It will take quite a while, and some of the passes will go along one edge, rather than crossing the main body of the card.
You'll know when you've finished because you'll be back at the notch with one bead, and all the notches will have four lines of thread coming out of them. The curves made by the thread should marry up to the orange curves on the card. The pattern on the back should just be four corner curves.
Your final challenge is to mark the end of the thread and undo it all (unless you had the foresight to somehow mark lengths off on the thread before starting - I should have thought of that beforehand!).
When you start unravelling it, you might want to set up a straight line in a big room and use a tape measure to set a fixed length. I set up a couple of "pegs" (an allen key jammed in my conservatory door and a bit of wood hooked by the kitchen door) which were four metres apart, and then ran the thread to and fro until I got to the start of the thread again. Then I simply counted how many times I had gone across the room and multiplied it by four. Et voila, the answer.


There is actually one final part of the puzzle, which is much more difficult. Getting the thread back on the reel afterwards! Rolling Eyes

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:09 am
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aliendial
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Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 3438
Location: Far Far Away. Nowhere Near You. Really.

 		Oh my. That was hard to visualize. My big mistake - asssuming we were just going round and round. But in fact it's across and sideways, across and sideways, all the way around the card...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:20 am
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myfModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 917
Location: Hiding from squirrels

 		I got really hacked off trying to do this one. Apparently trying to do it wrong, as it happens. But here's a tip: using nylon "invisible" thread makes it a whole lot harder that it already is (don't laugh! It was all I could find at the time Mad )
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:32 am
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almagest
Boot

Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: London

 		I am impressed, Wyllo, that is the only solution I have seen that makes any kind of sense. Indeed it works! I particularly like the fact that it makes some use of the two brown rhombi. I calculated the distance in excel and got it a little low, but maybe with real thread you get a little extra.

http://www.kalva.demon.co.uk/pc-cards/pc189.html

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:50 am
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