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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
[Meta] Can an ARG be too big?
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

re:mu

Shows what I know about math and all, I was assuming that SpaceBass meant "mu" as an off-handed reference to the grass-roots, and insanely popular, ARG known as Mu or Metacortechs.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:08 pm
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Rolerbe
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Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 330
Location: North America

I was only active in PCX in the very early months, so some brief context would help -- what are the 'recent issues' from PCX as you see them?

In any event, with scale comes complexity in communications. Separating the wheat from the chaff and structured summaries by the player base becomes as critical to the effort as the raw content provided by the PM's. Where the player base is called on to act in some coordinated way then some organization structure becomes an inevitable requirement. This certainly changes the character of play from the smaller args where anarchy is still sufficient. The big ones can still be fun, just a different kind of fun.

As the size of the arg grows and the nature of the play changes, some players will fade out. I think one big issue that is still being worked out is, given that players will fade out, how to keep the big arg's accessible to new players? I, for one, would be daunted and deterred by the thought of jumping back in to PCX and crawling my way back to the current action.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:21 pm
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vpisteve
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Joined: 30 Sep 2002
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I think what we're talking about here really is scaleability.

A well-designed game should be just as accessible, fun and satisfying to a massive audience as to a small one. There are countless small, but very important, rulesets that can and should be put into place to make sure this is the case.

So yeah, an ARG can "be too big," (which, for some games might only be a couple dozen players, due to the above-mentioned scaleability issues) but if it gets that way, it a design flaw by the PMs, not the fault of the players or ARG as a whole.

And yeah. Mu. Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:03 pm
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Wolf
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Joined: 26 Sep 2002
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Um...moo.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:03 pm
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Ashin
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Joined: 22 Nov 2005
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vpisteve wrote:
So yeah, an ARG can "be too big," (which, for some games might only be a couple dozen players, due to the above-mentioned scaleability issues) but if it gets that way, it a design flaw by the PMs, not the fault of the players or ARG as a whole.


If definitely depends on the game, but I think after PXC concludes is when this discussion would be appropriate, because nothing has ever been that large before. And PXC has some definite issues that would need to be addressed before trying something so large again.

Don't get me wrong, I love PXC, but their constant use of the word "global" to describe the game is only driven by the fact that they are selling cards globally. I think their scaling to the global market has fallen a bit short of their envisioned goal (which is why this discussion started).

So I guess: Yes, in my opinion, PXC may have scaled to big for itself, but does that mean there can't be an ARG that big? I'm not sure.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:48 pm
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Giskard
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Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 2066
Location: Chicago

European Chris wrote:
I'm not sure why the question "Do ARGs have an upper size limit?" would have the answer 'mu' though.


Maybe Mu isn't the most accurate answer to that question, or maybe my definition of Mu wasn't the most accurate...

There is a classic short story by Isaac Asimov called The Last Question, where two scientists are discussing, in short, a solution to entropy. They decide to ask the world's supercomputer, Multivac, which, after a grave moment of silence, answers "Insufficient data for meaningful answer". I'm not sure if Mu can also be used that way, but that would be the answer I'd give to MikeyJ's question:

"I don't really know how to answer your question, as there is no data available on what would happen when there'd be a "large-scale ARG" (and I don't think there have yet been enough ARGs to determine which ones are large-scale and which ones aren't either)" Cool



Oh btw, I can really recommend reading that story... it's very interesting in a philosofical way and has a prety impressive surprise ending Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:50 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

Quote:
If definitely depends on the game, but I think after PXC concludes is when this discussion would be appropriate, because nothing has ever been that large before


This is probably an ongoing discussion which will be great to revisit when the Cube is found. I don't think that the plan is for PXC to conclude, but to move to a new season.

As far as live event coordination and size of the game: I don't know the actual numbers of players but I think the Last Call Poker had as many people at their final event in LA as PPC had for the San Franciso live event. I know that i love bees also had many players - though they were spread out nationwide- until the last event which took place in filled to capacity movie theaters in several cities simultaneously.

Both Last Call Poker and I love bees required extensive on-line and off-line coordination. I love bees, in particular, because some puzzles required the relay of information from one live call (taken at a pay phone) to the next live call (taken at a pay phone) in, by the end of this particular task, less than 20 seconds. The only conduit between the calls was the on-line players.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:20 pm
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European Chris
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Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 1264
Location: London's trendy Whitechapel

Giskard wrote:
Oh btw, I can really recommend reading that story... it's very interesting in a philosofical way and has a prety impressive surprise ending Smile


On my amazon wish list. Cheers.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:09 am
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