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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Perplex City » PXC: Questions/Meta
"Jumped the Shark" thread and ongoing IRC debates
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		Quick question and comment
1. Has anyone done what Brian asked about clearing up the definition? If so, could it be posted in this thread?

2. I think his idea is very helpful. If people are interested in actually solving a problem, then finding a workable definition for a in-joke that has been off-putting to players who don't understand it, seems like a great way to go.

-----
Also, I wouldn't worry too much about losing the illusion of community, unfiction has survived greater stresses than this in the past. Part of the strength and resilience of this community is that we can disagree and still remain together. It takes a while for some people to realize that. The other part of community, the one that allows us to 'agree to disagree' is that people's opinions are protected.

I understand that a few players are in favor of this undefined "RSM" and at the same time others have complained that it is being used to shut them up in chat. A few days ago, I asked a question about a past story event and only got the a reply basically that "the RSM finished with that a while ago rose" -to me the only message of that was "be quiet , we aren't interested"- and, in fact, no one answered it. Perhaps this was before the release of the revised definition?

Being a community doesn't mean that everyone gets to say or do what they want. The idea is to encourage players to come forward with their ideas. People need to feel protected so that they feel safe advancing their ideas and theories. Random spec is the fodder of the game and often leads us to solutions we haven't seen before.

Please note - I am adding this comment as a player - not as a moderator or an operator.

(edit : added final comment, made other minor improvements Wink )

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:31 pm
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chippy|laptop
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 		I really don't think it is an "illusion" at all.

I think that Perplexcity has grown up into its own community, grown (slightly) apart from unfiction and the wider arg playing community.

They dont seem (to me) to mix. They have different cultures, in-jokes and tolerance levels (cf. swearing). They have different Ways, different identities. The wider arg community might find that hard to understand or believe but there is a sub community here and they haven't mixed.

Perplexcity has been so hugely successful as an ARG!
The sub forum, chat room and game itself has on the whole not been given the same level of enthusiasm by the more experienced arg playing community, theres pretty much no talk about it outside of perplexcity circles.

Allso, most perplexcity players don't go to any other part of the forums, and they dont see #unfiction as the community chat room, dont know the forum moderators. Argfest could be a good indication, it didn't even register for players to think about going there.

One possible obvious reason, for why there are two "Ways" is that the good Moderators were pinched and disappeared behind the curtain. They weren't replaced.


Recently, conflict happened when the Unfiction Way was put to work in the sphere of perplexcity, as it had once done, long ago, but it came up against the Perplexcity Way that didnt recognise this "estranged parent" and its old Way. Estranged parents need to show love and respect, to build back their relationship with their children. (apologies for the metaphor! Smile )

About most perplexcity players: they really dont know how people play other args. They really dont. They dont know who the main moderators and characters of unfiction are, or what other args or sub forums are around. Really.

OK. So two communities at the moment, wouldnt it be great if it was one again? Both Ways need to merge. Both need to admit things.

my advice: All I can say is "be nice". Be honest with each other.

what I would like to happen:
For perplexcity folk to accept that yes, compared with other sections of the Unforums, they have been unruly, and please some good moderation is needed. for perplexcity players to accept that behaviour is possible to change and being nice can help.

For unfiction folk to accept that yes, they have ignored perplexcity, but would like it to run along the same lines as the rest of the games played on the forums, and that it would be a good thing for that to happen as they can help the experience be better.

For both folk to acknowledge different playing styles, mannerisms and tolerance levels, and to work around that.

For perplexcity folk to have a look around and dive into some of the other excellent Alternate Reality Games out there.

For unfiction to welcome them into the wider community, teach them how it all works, tell them how to play the unfiction Way and by doing so, to start making friends, and engendering respect and familiarity with perplexcity players.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:29 pm
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spugmeistress
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 		For those people who weren't around yesterday afternoon in #syz, or who have read the logs and not understood what all the fuss was about - this post here was what kicked it all off. In my opinion it has very little to do with the RSM, or with swearing, and more to do with the fact that SpaceBass has a little list of those who are disruptive to chat, had words with everybody on that list, and then did not allow those people to appeal against his judgements, or even to change their ways, holding grudges and preconceptions about every further thing they typed, be it in chat or in on the forum. Chris's ban is a fine example of this, certain ops brought up past reputation as reasons for it, but the matter still stands that he was banned for calling someone boring. This is not only inconsistent, but would have been avoided if the mods involved maybe talked to that chat room sometimes and got to know us and our humour. This also may have been avoided if certain cultural differences were recognised by the mods, rather than a largely UK room having to tailor their sense of humour towards an almost exclusively US based moderating team who were prone to misunderstand.

Whether it is a coincidence that the majority of people on those list were people who had been asked to moderate the SF live chat in a different, non-unfiction sanctioned room, is up to you. Whether it is a coincidence that these alleged complaints from newcomers that demanded new non-pxc-playing mods to be drafted in in the exact same week as the aftermath of the SF event is also up to you. SpaceBass has already admitted that he was no longer objective with regards to the discussion.

I don't deny that there have been some things that have put off new players, but I don't really believe that there's been complaints either to be honest. Personally, whatever reputation I might have gained with some of the moderators, I try to be as welcoming and un-insular as possible with regards to both new players, and to new ideas. The proof is in both my PM box, where new players have asked me questions, in my Myspace sent box where I took it upon myself to invite half of Scarlett's myspace friends list to #syzygy and I would hope, in the stuff I've said in there. Most of the rest of the community seem to agree with me - to this date I've had no feedback off anyone that I haven't been a welcoming person in there, quite the opposite, until now. (and i agree with duckie, if anyone has had issues with how I have behaved towards them, I would very much like to know, and apologise - my PM box awaits you) I feel that the past few days, the heavy handed modding and drama creating hyper sensitivity of the mods, not to mention the bitching in there after the SF event, has been more offputting to new members than we ever were. I also feel that in worrying so much about new players, the administration have decided that the feelings, and the welcomeness and friendliness towards existing players has been totally ignored.

I do not mean to be antagonistic with this post, and I'm sorry if I've either named names too much, or been over general either - but I felt there was more to this issue than what Bri said in the first post. The RSM, the swearing et al have become scapegoats so that certain people didn't have to deal with underlying issues and emotions.

I too would like to sort this out - but I think there perhaps need to be compromises on both sides, and currently the administration aren't budging. Some of us have been asked to do things, which we have therefore gone and done, and still, nothing changes.

I also apologise for talking about myself so much in this, but as we have been told to stop talking on behalf of communities that dont always want to be spoken for, this is the only way I can. Although I do have to stress that I doubt yesterday's events would have transpired if it wasn't vastly apparent that the feelings made vocal were held by the majority - just because they weren't arguing/typing so much, dont for one second think that other people dont think the same as we do - we have PMs and alternate chat rooms for that kind of talk because not everybody wants the hassle that comes with trying to speak out against such things.

Yes Unfiction has probably weathered worse in the past, and the 'community' will still be there, but I guess that's dependant on what your definition of a community is. No in jokes in case new players come in and dont get them, no making friends in case new players come in and dont know who is friends with who, no meeting up in case people who live far away cant make it and feel left out, no staying around for a long period of time in case new players feel intimidated by your mere oldbie status, no disagreeing with anyone else, no telling people that their 'new' ideas were actually voiced a year ago... I could go on. Yes, Unfiction and #syzygy will always be there, but the community that has been active in there over the past 2 years and yet still have absolutely no claim to their own room, won't be.

rachel. (apologies for length, and b3ta references ;)

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:59 pm
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mac_monkey
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Joined: 25 Feb 2006
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 		Spug and Chippy both make very good points.

All the bitterness and division asside, and to the jumping the shark thing. I think this thread may well be remembered in ARG History...

"The beginning of the successful commercial ARG Generation"

It seems to me that all this is a sign of the ARG's success and all these unforseen effects have come from that.

It's commercial value means there are more ARG n00bs, meaning the longer standing community are more frustrated and moderators are poking to integrate people more.

Two things come to mind:
1. Moderators / Ops need to develop a plan (which unfortunately involves adapting to the new situation). Things don't stay the same forever, this tree is a sap no longer- we need a bigger pot!
2. Players and the general community need to be more patient with each other.

Oh and 3. All this RSM stuff is nonsense, I didn't initially see it having a detrimental effect until it was flogged like a dead horse about how bad it is. Move along, nothing to see here.

Just my two Cents
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:25 am
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BrianEnigma
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 		Hopefully, this does more to help than hurt the conversation
spugmeistress wrote:
For those people who weren't around yesterday afternoon in #syz, or who have read the logs and not understood what all the fuss was about - this post here was what kicked it all off. In my opinion it has very little to do with the RSM, or with swearing, and more to do with the fact that SpaceBass has a little list of those who are disruptive to chat.


Do know that "the list" was not SpaceBass's personal vendetta against "eVile PXC players." Nor was it a McCarthy communist witchhunt. It was, as you said, a list of people who have been disruptive to chat--be it a tiny bit or a whole lot--in the past couple of weeks. Some of that disruption was people being slapped down by the RSM. Some of it was ignoring valid newbie questions. Some of it was general snootiness. It was a summary of complaints. Keep in mind that Unfiction (and its chat-solutions IRC channels) isn't run by one person in a vacuum. There are behind-the-scenes forums and channels to help organize and administer everything. As far as I know, most, if not all, moderators agreed on that list. SpaceBass took it upon himself to personally talk to each person--not to chew them out, but to ask for help in turning things around and making it a less hostile environment. Several of these people did show change and were promoted to ops and half-ops (lhall, skenmy, macmonkey.) Several other people took the chat much more personally than it was intended. Honestly, if I was running Unfiction and complaints came to me about IRC, I think I would have done the very same thing--talk to the people involved, rather than immediate banination or packing up my things and going home.

spugmeistress wrote:
Chris's ban is a fine example of this, certain ops brought up past reputation as reasons for it, but the matter still stands that he was banned for calling someone boring. This is not only inconsistent, but would have been avoided if the mods involved maybe talked to that chat room sometimes and got to know us and our humour.


I was not around when this happened. I have to agree that on the surface, it sounds a little bit extreme to me. Many of us know that Chris has, shall we say, a bit of an abrasive personality at times. In my personal opinion, I probably would (and in fact, have) let it slide if it is in a post and tangential to the post's content, but this entire post's purpose was a poke at another player, which is technically a no-no according to the Terms of Service. I don't make the rules, I just play by them--and that's a difficult one to let slide. Also, from what I understand this was the second such offense in as many weeks. So I guess you can argue the ToS or try to amend an "* except Chris" to each clause, but they seem very reasonable and mature to me.

spugmeistress wrote:
The RSM, the swearing et al have become scapegoats so that certain people didn't have to deal with underlying issues and emotions.


I think you are very correct on that. To summarize a private conversation I was part of a few days ago, #syzygy is a new and unique thing. Usually, the ARG folks hang out on #unfiction. When a new game comes along, it is discussed in there for a little while until it either peters out or gains enough momentum to spin off another room. When people come to chat, they're usually dropped into #unfiction, which can be a really crazy room with lots of in-jokes, but when a newbie comes along, all of that is dropped. They are talked to like real human beings and then directed to the appropriate game channel. (Shenanigans and hijinx are then resumed in #unfiction.) Everyone's happy. It's a great place for goofing off, but when there's work to be done, it gets done.

This is what happened back before Perplex City was called Perplex City (hence the name #syzygy and not #perplexcity.) #unfiction was the welcoming lobby, players were directed to #syzygy. Up until recently, this has been all been very well and good because most ARGs last a month or two--long enough for friendships and inside jokes to happen in the ARG-specific channel, but not long enough for a separate community to take root. Those friends and inside-jokes fall back into the #unfiction melting pot when the ARG concludes, and the rest is history and legend. But #syzygy! #syzygy is a different beast. The game has been going on for a couple of *YEARS* now. That's unheard of in the ARG world. Guides, trails, and wikis, to save time send people directly to #syzygy, bypassing #unfiction. Many PXC people who read the boards only read the PXC section and ignore the rest of Unfiction. Most people in #syzygy have never set foot in #unfiction. Similarly, many of the people in #unfiction are vaguely aware of #syzygy, but don't really visit there much.

All of this has caused #syzygy to be its own community. But remember, it was created under the aegis if Unfiction. It has a sort of Unfiction "seal of approval." The boards are using Unfiction computers, the chat room is endorsed by Unfiction, and when there are complaints, guess where they go? Someone has to take responsibility, and that was Unfiction (and more specifically, SpaceBass.)

So what am I leading up to? It sounds like I'm about to say that #syzygy has grown to be its own community and Unfiction is a different community and that they should part ways and do their own thing. And that is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I'm about to say. There have been some mumblings of people wanting to set up their own forums and chat rooms and I think this will be highly detrimental to the community as a whole. I have a hard enough time keeping up with both the Unfiction forums and the official PXC forums. I'd rather not have to deal with a third--and, in fact, I won't and will continue to stay here and on the official forums. Splintering off to another faction is not the answer. It's the equivalent of "I'm taking my ball and going home." It is a rash action that causes people to expend needless energy on reshuffling instead of communicating.

So yes, Unfiction (as a whole) had been ignoring the #syzygy crowd for a while, but on the flip-side, #syzygy had been ignoring its roots in Unfiction for the same amount of time. People (newbies and veterans alike) were having a terrible user experience and complained to the entity that endorsed the channel.

The root problem is that there were complaints about #syzygy and they went to SpaceBass. He tried to address them in, what I see as, a civil and reasonable way. Certainly, it was a way that has worked successfully countless times before. Many people took this as Unfiction trying to "reclaim power" and wanting to smite the community that exists. The answer isn't going to be in the extremes--Unfiction seizing absolute control or #syzygy splintering to a new group. The answer is going to be about half-way in between, with each side yielding to the other just a bit. If you look at it like a government, Unfiction is the federal government. They have a couple of big rules that are important (don't kill people, pay your taxes.) Then you have the local government that gets to fill in the gaps, creating their own rules and community within the overarching federal framework (you can build your house here but not there, you have to teach both evolution and creationism in our local schools, such-and-such is a lewd and indecent in our community, pay your local taxes.) Similarly, Unfiction has large sweeping rules that ask people to conduct themselves in respectful, appropriate ways. Any given ARG community can then flesh out any smaller rules that affect the local community, but they still have to be respectful and helpful.

...and that, I believe, is where the disconnect is. A large segment of the community was disregarding the rules, probably because they were long forgotten. SpaceBass came along to help set things right, but because he wasn't as familiar with the community as perhaps he could have been, it wasn't taken the right way or wasn't seen from his perspective and ended up being blown out of proportion. So let's agree that we're here primarily to play the game--both amongst ourselves and by helping newbies--and that any other community, in-jokes, and horseplay is icing on the cake. If we can at least agree on that, we can put this whole incident behind us, chalk it up as a learning experience as we pioneer new frontiers in ARGs, and get back to what we do best: solving puzzles, speculating stories, and having an all-around good time!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:37 pm
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ryandrew
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 		I think a lot of what Bri said in his post is very relevant, and I am aware that the rules are set for an important reason, to maintain order. I do however feel that the rules are not as applicable to Perplex City as an ARG and as a community as they are to most other more 'short-term' ARGs. Like Brian said, it has been established as an ARG long enough for a seperate cimmunity to arise, and in that community, strong friendships have arisen (And on occasion, differences). When people have been friends long enough, part of that friendship can involve lighthearted name-calling. Whilst the banning of Chris is technically in accordance with the ToS, the context of the post is what makes this seem an unfair circumstance. When I started playing Perplex City last year, it soon became apparent that this community was different than most ARGs. People had more of a chemistry I suppose. There was a stronger sense of familiarity between players. Admittedly this was daunting at first, but the community was (for the mostpart) very welcoming, and I have gone on to make some serious and hopefully lifelong friends.

The point I am trying to make in this rather rambling post is that you can not judge the remarks made in a community, unless you take them in context. I noticed on the previous page that one person at least did notice the link that I posted in the middle of the debate/argument. Whilst the article is rather humourous, there are some deep topics it touches on. If somebody writes something that may be interpreted as either malicious or innocent, depending on tone, then clarify the tone with the writer. It can't help anyone to just jump to conclusions about the tone in which people say something. If we take the time to understand each other, we can avoid unnecessary schizms from breaking the community apart.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:10 pm
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DrKra37
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 		Well, I don't really have a whole lot to say about the really essential issues that this thread is trying to address, largely because I'm not really active enough on the forums to know much about it.

However, I can address spug, duckie, et al and the intimidation thing. It's not because of anything you do, I think, but rather because you're friends and you have extremely high post counts, and as I think spug said, you're oldbies. That's not really intimidating in and of itself, or at least it shouldn't be, but sometimes people will feel unqualified or shy, I think.

How do we fix that? I don't really know. The only thing I can think of is to keep being respectful and welcoming as you've always been, and hope that people figure it out.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:32 am
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mac_monkey
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 		Re: Hopefully, this does more to help than hurt the conversa
BriEnigma wrote:
In my opinion it has very little to do with the RSM, or with swearing, and more to do with the fact that SpaceBass has a little list of those who are disruptive to chat.


Snip

BriEnigma wrote:
Several of these people did show change and were promoted to ops and half-ops (lhall, skenmy, macmonkey.)


I'm sure it wasn't intended to sound like I'm an evil sinner and I have repented, however it can be interpreted that way. I don't think I've been that disruptive to chat, however I did have some issues with things in there and left for a few days. I did bring my issues up with SpaceBass and I hope I'm not considered a trouble maker, as I'm really far from it.

Embarassed
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:36 am
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BrianEnigma
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 		Re: Hopefully, this does more to help than hurt the conversa
mac_monkey wrote:
I'm sure it wasn't intended to sound like I'm an evil sinner and I have repented, however it can be interpreted that way. I don't think I've been that disruptive to chat, however I did have some issues with things in there and left for a few days. I did bring my issues up with SpaceBass and I hope I'm not considered a trouble maker, as I'm really far from it.


Oops! I didn't mean to imply that only troublemakers were talked to. Maybe I should have re-read what I wrote (well, re-read it a third time after stepping away for a bit.) A lot of people were talked to, including people who had been around for a while with no complaint against them--as sort of a "hey, what's up? How do you feel about all this? Can you help improve the place?" Sorry--there was no disrespect intended.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:29 am
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spugmeistress
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 		Re: Hopefully, this does more to help than hurt the conversa
BriEnigma wrote:
Do know that "the list" was not SpaceBass's personal vendetta against "eVile PXC players." Nor was it a McCarthy communist witchhunt. It was, as you said, a list of people who have been disruptive to chat--be it a tiny bit or a whole lot--in the past couple of weeks. Some of that disruption was people being slapped down by the RSM. Some of it was ignoring valid newbie questions. Some of it was general snootiness. It was a summary of complaints.


A summary of complaints that a) we had no chance to appeal against, and b) even when we did change our act and try and make things better, were still being considered as troublemakers.

Quote:
So what am I leading up to? It sounds like I'm about to say that #syzygy has grown to be its own community and Unfiction is a different community and that they should part ways and do their own thing. And that is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I'm about to say. There have been some mumblings of people wanting to set up their own forums and chat rooms and I think this will be highly detrimental to the community as a whole. I have a hard enough time keeping up with both the Unfiction forums and the official PXC forums. I'd rather not have to deal with a third--and, in fact, I won't and will continue to stay here and on the official forums. Splintering off to another faction is not the answer. It's the equivalent of "I'm taking my ball and going home." It is a rash action that causes people to expend needless energy on reshuffling instead of communicating.


I agree, I don't want to have to keep up with a billion chat rooms and forums either, but we tried to sort things out, and no solutions were found except that one. It seems like the Unfiction side of things are unwilling to compromise, and we are being told to put up or shut up, and in the absence of being allowed to talk freely, we've found our own place.

Quote:
So yes, Unfiction (as a whole) had been ignoring the #syzygy crowd for a while, but on the flip-side, #syzygy had been ignoring its roots in Unfiction for the same amount of time. People (newbies and veterans alike) were having a terrible user experience and complained to the entity that endorsed the channel.


you said that syz had evolved into a new beast, so why should we be applying the same rules to it that apply to all the other rooms? alot of PXC players don't play other ARGs, and they shouldnt be forced to, to become a member of the unfiction pxc community - not only has pxc been around for ages, but its become a lot more mainstream. if unfiction are again, unwilling to accept these changes, then i see that as their fault not ours.

Quote:
...and that, I believe, is where the disconnect is. A large segment of the community was disregarding the rules, probably because they were long forgotten.


what rules would those be? afaik, there's just 'play nice' and the ones on the MOTD. we specifically asked for a clear definition of the rules the other day and were told that we had no right to demand TOS, and that what SpaceBass decides, goes, that Unfiction is a dictatorship, not a democracy, and if we didn't like it, we should just leave.

Quote:
If we can at least agree on that, we can put this whole incident behind us, chalk it up as a learning experience as we pioneer new frontiers in ARGs, and get back to what we do best: solving puzzles, speculating stories, and having an all-around good time!


I would personally love to, but #syzygy and the unforums are not a welcoming place for me right now, and for a lot of others, and until that changes, it's not going to happen bri, sorry.

rach =)

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:37 pm
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jamesi
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 		Re: Hopefully, this does more to help than hurt the conversa
spugmeistress wrote:
It seems like the Unfiction side of things are unwilling to compromise, and we are being told to put up or shut up, and in the absence of being allowed to talk freely, we've found our own place.

If that's how you see things, I personally wish you the best of luck at your hew home. That's me the occasional PXC player, not me the administrator, by the way. See, as an occasional PXC player, I'm all for having a place to read (and, on the rare occasion, contribute to) discussions. But, I'd like that place to be as drama-free as possible. I think this place is still a pretty good place keep track of PXC. That being said, if you personally don't want to play here anymore because of one reason or another, and want to go to your own place, then that's your choice. I knew what rules were involved when I signed up here 4 years ago, and you knew those rules when you signed up here. If those rules now mean that you personally feel that you are being censored or oppressed, then maybe it's time to move on to your "own place". By all means, there's no exclusivity contract with MC/PXC for UF to be the one and only place to talk about PXC -- if you have to move, that's your call.

spugmeistress wrote:
you said that syz had evolved into a new beast, so why should we be applying the same rules to it that apply to all the other rooms? alot of PXC players don't play other ARGs, and they shouldnt be forced to, to become a member of the unfiction pxc community - not only has pxc been around for ages, but its become a lot more mainstream. if unfiction are again, unwilling to accept these changes, then i see that as their fault not ours.

Well, to be fair, even if #syzygy develops into the Happy Fun Rainbow Discussion room, it would still be considered to be a UF-sponsored room, and as such, would be subject to the same rules and regulations as all other UF-sponsored rooms. Evolution does not negate tradition. To be even more fair, UF's TOS agreement is not a static entity -- in the past year, it was subject to an overhaul to meet with the ever-changing landscape of ARG. I don't see this as a fact of unFiction being unwilling to accept things, spugmistress. I don't see that at all.

spugmeistress wrote:
what rules would those be? afaik, there's just 'play nice' and the ones on the MOTD. we specifically asked for a clear definition of the rules the other day and were told that we had no right to demand TOS, and that what SpaceBass decides, goes, that Unfiction is a dictatorship, not a democracy, and if we didn't like it, we should just leave.

I'm curious -- who told you this? Let me know in private so that we can avoid any possible embarrassment.

spugmeistress wrote:
I would personally love to, but #syzygy and the unforums are not a welcoming place for me right now, and for a lot of others, and until that changes, it's not going to happen bri, sorry.

Like I stated before, this is not the end-all be-all location for ARG discussion. Feel free to remove yourself from here at any time and go to what you must consider to be 'greener pastures'. It's a personal decision as to where you play your games, spugmistress, and if this isn't the place, then have a great time elsewhere. I do hope, however, that this is the last I hear of your personal problems, as it's apparent that you have had the opportunity to state your opinions and, having put them out there for everyone to digest, can now make an informed decision as to what your next steps should be.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:26 pm
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Rand0m
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 271
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 		Re: Hopefully, this does more to help than hurt the conversa
jamesi wrote:
I'm all for having a place to read (and, on the rare occasion, contribute to) discussions. But, I'd like that place to be as drama-free as possible. I think this place is still a pretty good place keep track of PXC.


My view exactly.

I'm a veteran of a lot of message boards, forums and similar things, in roles ranging from ordinary member to moderator to beta tester, since I first went online back in '97. These tensions aren't anything I haven't seen before, and frankly they're being conducted in a more reasonable manner than in many, many places I've previously encountered them. Far less drama, far less rudeness, far fewer heels being dug in.

I've belonged to boards where I've had to restrain myself from screaming out loud at my screen with anger at the conduct of some posters (usually the ones who believe 'free speech' involves the right to shout everyone else down without come-back) and I've quit boards because of heavy-handed admins on power kicks.

Here on Unfiction I see no-one exhibiting those levels of behaviour, and hardly anyone taking the first steps in that direction. In fact, if you'd asked me before this all went public, when on the surface everything seemed peaceful to those of us who didn't know there was a storm brewing, to name the names of every person on this forum who made me feel uncomfortable being a member here, there would have been only two names on the list I gave you.

I will say frankly that I was delighted when one of those people was banned recently, because I saw the decision as a piece of intelligent administration in the face of growing provocation.

May I politely request that the other person take note that many ordinary players - particularly those who don't give a toss about what happens in IRC - are perfectly happy with the way this forum is run and the welcome they receive here, and don't agree with a word she's saying?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:38 pm
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BrianEnigma
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 		Re: Hopefully, this does more to help than hurt the conversa
Rand0m wrote:
there would have been only two names on the list I gave you....[text implying those two people cut for brevity]...

Let's not point fingers, please. I think we can still have a good discussion without resorting to blamethrowers.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:43 pm
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