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[Ozy_y2k]

[Cortana]

[Ozy_y2k]

Why thankee, Cort.

Yeah, I'm happy that CD.org is (at least for now) small enough and responsive enough to the needs of the community to be willing and able to enforce their "opt-in/opt-out" approach. Would that all of the e-commerce MegaCorps of the world felt the same way.

See, there ARE some benefits to keeping a community humming happily along at a "grassroots" level. It's a lot harder to knife someone in the back, vis-a-vis their personal info, when you know you gotta look 'em in the eye come the next campaign.

And to answer your question re: good writing -- I have Neal Stephenson tied up in my basement as we speak, chained to a laptop. If he doesn't start producing soon, I'm gonna hafta break out the electric cattle prod again, and he HATES that.

O

[vpisteve]

On the topic of PM permission slips, I've wondered a lot about that (This might warrent a separate topic at this point ).

At first it sounds like a great idea, but upon further thought it seems pretty problematic, and it all boils down to these two issues: Player base accuracy and progress.

1-Unless there's some assurance that every single player is playing under one roof, wherever it is, I just can't see how PM could even consider buying the info to use in the game. It can't be a representation of his entire player base, so what value is it? What about solo players? What about folks on those other obscure boards? Plus, if folks can opt in/opt out, that info is dilluted even more. Plus, why would a PM pay for that info when they can easily collect it themselves as part of the game? Which leads to point 2....

2-Hand in hand with collecting info, whether email addresses or whatever, is the fact that if a player gives it to you, then you know they've reached a certain point in the game. For example, what good would it do to get an email from ARM if you hadn't even been to the ARM site yet?? In addition to getting info, it's the most common way to track progress.

I guess my point is this: if a PM can easily get whatever player info he needs in an in-game way (and for free), and is thereby also assured that that info is from actual players who have reached a certain site in the game, and more closely represents his entire player base, then why on earth would he buy that info (which would be incomplete at best) from someone else, especially if he's a grassroots PM on a non-existent budget? Even if it's a professional PM with lots bucks behind him, why go to the trouble? Why hire a middle-man?? It just makes no sense to me.

[Guest]

[Cortana]

Okay, I was a dumbass.

[Cortana]

[vpisteve]

Focus people, focus!!

Somehow my two points concerning player base and progress got turned into demographics. That wasn't what I was talking about at all.

Maybe I didn't communicate it well.

I was talking purely about being able to: a) track specific player progress; and b) know exactly what your complete player base is.

Keeping things to their oh-so-simplest terms, if a player makes it to a specific site and registers somehow, the PM knows a) he/she's made it to a certain point in the game, or solved a certain puzzle; and b) he/she is actually playing the game. There's absolutely no way the PM can get that information from a third party registration such as the CDPS.

(If that isn't crystal clear, I might as well try explaining additive synthesis to a brick wall )

Something happened today that illustrates exactly what I'm talking about. I got an email today from a search4e character, thanking me for the kind note I never sent. How lame is that?? I'm not even actively playing search4e at this point. Now take note: that's the only kind of game interaction that can result from utilizing a 3rd-party opt-in process. Similar emails to the smaller slice of players who signed up for it, (who may no longer be playing at all), as opposed to the full complement of players who'd actually reached a certain point, or performed a certain action.

Had I simply gone to a site and signed an e-card to this character, it would have been justified story-wise, plus they would know that I'd actually been playing along and had gotten that far in the game. Again, that's my point!

One last thing, regarding my comment about middle men: Speaking from experience, hiring a middle man has nothing to do with ease of use, but has everything to do with a middle man providing a service I absolutely can't provide myself, or can't produce cost-effectively. I mean, imagine a waiter in a restaurant who says to himself "Hmm, I could go take that person's order, but naw, I think I'll hire this other guy to take it for me, and I'll even pay him out of my pocket to do it. It'll cost me more, but he's better looking than me, so the customer will have a better experience." (Okay, so maybe that's not an entirely accurate parallel, but you get my drift).

You hire a middleman when he, say, has a distribution network that you don't, or access to cheap bulk rates that you don't. I guess I still just don't see the value of the middleman here, especially when it comes to player progress and actuality.

Again, sorry if I wasn't clear on those two points. Hopefully I am now.

Side note: should this thread be split off to a different topic?

[bill]

[Cortana]