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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: MetaCortechs » MetaCortechs: Puzzles
[SOLVED] Marcus's Metadex files (dimitri.zip) [Nov 6]
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joebrent
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Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 640
Location: New York, sometimes

Wow.

Sometimes you guys make me feel nose-pickingly stupid.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:28 am
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chancesend
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 128
Location: Colorado, USA

Re: Addendum II

xnbomb wrote:

One reason I've been pursuing understanding some of its properties...


Massive edit of xnbomb's quote above! :-) Good read, though...

I found it really interesting that the symbols for E and F are very similar. Like you postulated, I feel that these symbols are not random, but rather taken from the characters they represent. If we could figure out how to decode them, we might be able to find out what characters are at the end of the puzzle.

Oh, and XNBomb - have you ever taken a class (or done some independant work) on adaptive/learning algorithms? I took a class like that in college that focused on simulating neural networks, and it was a very good class. Seems like you would definitely dig that stuff...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 5:38 am
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ParityBit
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Joined: 17 Oct 2003
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Location: London Above

Hell's bells... and I thought that I liked pondering on crypto puzzles...

xnbomb, chancesend; you guys are awesomely hardcore! Fantastic work, and thanks for the large explanations too, it really helps for those of us who are not so clued up to follow the decryption process.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:08 am
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unkle_markus
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Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 4

You Guys have made it all too complex
Here is the real answer It took me days and days of research but finally the answer you have all been waiting for



...
.. Laughing
labirynth.gif
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labirynth.gif


PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:50 am
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clrodrick
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Heh, I couldn't help but laugh at that unkle

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:04 pm
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Azathoth666
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Joined: 09 Oct 2003
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Location: OZ-tralia

Wow... Friday arvo I post about barcodes and t-shirts, and I come back monday to find the puzzle solved in entirety and the t-shirt idea gaining a growing fan base! Laughing

Well, if thats the only thing I contribute to this ARG... Wink

Big kudos from down under for the solve ChancesEnd, and a huge shout out to xnbomb for the crypto theory. Nice work guys.

And yes, if someone does do these tshirts I'll take one. PM me. I'd be a hippocrite not to get one. Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:19 pm
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xnbomb
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003
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Location: J302B S8JDC

Re: Addendum II

chancesend wrote:
I found it really interesting that the symbols for E and F are very similar. Like you postulated, I feel that these symbols are not random, but rather taken from the characters they represent. If we could figure out how to decode them, we might be able to find out what characters are at the end of the puzzle.

With that in mind, I've put together something so people can look at the symbol next to the letters you've identified to see if we can identify a progression:



Keep in mind that symbols do rotate in the tapestry. Above, I've shown the rotation position for each letter in the position in which it appears most often. In a few cases, there are few instances of a letter (C, F, P), so I just picked one rotation position arbitrarily. In other cases, there is only one instance ... only one choice. The identification of ! and : are my own invention, although they fit the plaintext alright. The last two symbols denoted by * are the mystery symbols at the end of the message. Pursuing the 'mystery symbols are unused letters' hypothesis, based on similarity to adjacent symbols, I can imagine mystery symbol #1 at either X or Z, and mystery symbol #2 at J.

When I look at the symbols and their letters/punctuation, I definitely see some progression from one symbol to the next. In some cases, I can see a resemblance between a letter and the symbol that represents it. Thusfar, a rule to explain them hasn't jumped out at me, but I haven't looked too hard yet. Very Happy

(EDIT: I'm starting to see it. As chancesend suggests, take a square and break it into 3x3 smaller squares. Take each of those smaller squares and divide it diagonally so you now have 18 equally-sized triangles. All 'nibbling' aside, all symbols are made up of filling some of those 18 triangles with black. It looks like the diagonal division is always the same direction in the corner squares, although I think it can vary in other squares. In many cases, a pair of adjacent letters only differ by the position of one or two black triangles.)

chancesend wrote:
Oh, and XNBomb - have you ever taken a class (or done some independant work) on adaptive/learning algorithms? I took a class like that in college that focused on simulating neural networks, and it was a very good class. Seems like you would definitely dig that stuff...

Yep, that's my kind of thing. I've studied neural networks in the context of per-pixel multispectral image classification, and it is neat stuff. When I think about how the MetaCortex AIs might function, I always imagine them as having neural network like qualities, where they are trained (say to solve problems) with example problems, using a fitness criterion that encourages their behavior (i.e. they score a success when they solve a problem, thus they learn to like solving problems).

P.S. I'd be into purchasing a t-shirt too. Also, now that I've got the symbols and their letters in a fairly convenient data structure, I can write new messages and make new tapestries with a little effort. I'd have to write something else to do the 'nibbling' that takes a little bit out of adjacent symbols to make them look seamless, and something that makes the rotation decisions to make it look as integrated as possible. I'd still like to see the software used to create the tapestry ... unless it was created painstakingly by hand, I'm sure there is a pretty neat program that did it. Very Happy

(EDIT: Moved image to attachment)
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My location is a little tricky, but sooner or later, you'll get the knack.

{J302B S8JDC, 8996N M8L4W, 92D40 Q1JX5, 4PPRN R2B97, 8DC7C NZJNV, 8CH7V Q891H}


PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:40 am
Last edited by xnbomb on Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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surfloser
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Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 118

great job its amazing how intuitive diffrent people can be at diffrent things!
good job
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:39 am
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Raven
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Joined: 10 Nov 2003
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Location: Manchester, England

Pure unadultarated Skill.

Speechless,

Much love to chancesend, yeahyeah and xnbomb

Quote the Raven Nevermore
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:03 pm
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aqualung1105
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Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 55

Chancesend, Xnbomb et al - Iīm awed and impressed and, and...and aall that!
Beautiful work, guys!!

Now, the rest of the images - will we be discussing those here, or in anohter thread?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:33 pm
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xnbomb
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 660
Location: J302B S8JDC

One more look

Thanks for the many kind words Very Happy I've put together one more look at the key, this time rotating the symbols such that they look (to my eye) to have a relatively consistent orientation. Once you do this, you can see just how similar the symbols for adjacent letters in the alphabet really are:



Also, I think you could probably reorder some of the punctuation symbols so more similar ones are next to each other in the key (as is this case for the alphabet where the order is unambiguous), but I haven't done that.

(EDIT: Moved image to attachment)
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_________________
My location is a little tricky, but sooner or later, you'll get the knack.

{J302B S8JDC, 8996N M8L4W, 92D40 Q1JX5, 4PPRN R2B97, 8DC7C NZJNV, 8CH7V Q891H}


PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:03 pm
Last edited by xnbomb on Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ChainedLightning
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
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The whole discussion about how this would be much harder to figure out with a computer than by human eye takes me back to the Paintover pics... perhaps someone did that on purpose, to keep any rogue programs running around from solving it?

Not that the Matrix AI's would have problems with it - but a newer AI (built by Metacortechs) might have trouble with it.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:37 pm
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Omnie
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Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 772

ChainedLightning wrote:
The whole discussion about how this would be much harder to figure out with a computer than by human eye takes me back to the Paintover pics... perhaps someone did that on purpose, to keep any rogue programs running around from solving it?

Not that the Matrix AI's would have problems with it - but a newer AI (built by Metacortechs) might have trouble with it.


Yep. It's funny, I believe that xnbomb was the one who used that in relation to his .bh=AI theory, saying that Caesar may know about the AI, and .bh's little "I see you" image post could be like, "hah, you can't hide from me that easily! See, I can make images with messages too!"

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:39 pm
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ArchGod
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Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 82
Location: USAFA Prep School

I don't know if anyone else saw this, but look at the mixed up letters.

Quote:
I_KNOW_THAT_MY_DAD
_TRUSTED_YOU_AND_I
_COULD_USE_YIUR_HE
LP._I_DON'T_KNOW_W
HERE_ELSE_TO_TURN.
_IT_HAS_BEEN_TOO_L
NNG*_I_SHOULD_HAVE
_HEARD_BY_NOW._NON
E_OF_OUR_PLANS_HAV
E_WORKED_OUT._I_KN
OW_THAT_THUY_ARE_S
TILL_OUT_THERE!_BU
T_WHERE?_DO_YOU_KN
OW?_HAVE_YOU_HEARD
?_CAN_YOU_HELP?_TH
IS_IS_ALL_MY_FAULT
._I_WISH_I_UNDERST
OOD_WHAT_I_DID._**


The messed up words are YIOR, LNNG, and THUY
This might be stretching, but take the letters that are messed up, and the letters that are supposed to be there and you get OIONUE.

A little rearrange and voila, I O U NEO. Hey now, that is a little bit strange ain't it. Could this be a letter to Neo. Could James Avery be connected to Neo. Maybe Neo freed Avery and ... Oh jeeze, I don't know, I probably have just stretched this way too far. Just my thoughts.
(Again, a message inside a message).

By the way, I would love a shirt too.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:43 pm
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aqualung1105
Boot


Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 55

ArchGod wrote:
The messed up words are YIOR, LNNG, and THUY
This might be stretching, but take the letters that are messed up, and the letters that are supposed to be there and you get OIONUE.

A little rearrange and voila, I O U NEO. Hey now, that is a little bit strange ain't it. Could this be a letter to Neo. Could James Avery be connected to Neo. Maybe Neo freed Avery and ... Oh jeeze, I don't know, I probably have just stretched this way too far. Just my thoughts.
(Again, a message inside a message).


- The letters also make up I O U ONE...I donīt have a point with this as of right now, just pointing it out.
What could possibly be the meaning of a hidden message like this within a hidden message?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:09 pm
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