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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Blue Puzzle Cards
[SOLVED] 150 A Journey In The Desert
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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Bogieman
Greenhorn

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Kent, UK

Hi all. I know I'm a bit late to the thread, but I only just got the card and worked quite hard on it. I thought I'd share my results.

We know the answer is as stated above. But why? Ollie says his solution relies upon the cars waiting in the desert for their companions and donating fuel as the companions make their return journey. We now know, however, that this constitutes a "cache of fuel" (or so say the folks at MC).

Therefore, for anyone who's interested (and because I was quite bored tonight), I've posted a PDF of my own workings. The "spare fuel" shown relates to the amount of fuel in the tank plus spares kept on board each car.

For each step of the journey, I've subtracted 2 fuel points, assuming that a given car spends one getting there and reserves one to get back again. Finally, the arrow underneath each pit-stop represents the redistribution of fuel from the left-most car in the table to all other cars. The left-most car then returns immediately, hence not having to wait around in the desert as a "fuel cache." The final car makes it as far as the final stop before it has no fuel to carry on (but having reserved enough to get back again, of course).

I know this will be old news to most of you, but I'm hoping that putting my own explanation into this format will help someone out there understand the problem better.

EDIT: Had to remove the real answer from the above text... The PDF is a spoiler, obviously, so don't look if you don't want to know.
blue150.pdf
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:45 pm
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Hituro
Veteran

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 102

No thank you Bogieman, I appreciate your solution. I too couldn't see why the answer Ollie used was any more correct than the other rejected one, so I appreciate a way at arriving at the same answer that makes more sense, thanks!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:08 pm
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GasparLewis
Unfettered


Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Posts: 474
Location: vicinty of NYC

Well, since I can't read Bogieman's on the account of my Acrobat being bugged out (though it's very likely the same thing), here is mine:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
After 0 miles, 0 turn back (all 9 go on)
After 40 miles, 9 cars have 9 spare tanks (81) and no full (0) (0+81=81)
One gives away 8 for the others, save 1 to turn back (8 go on)
This gives 9 to each of the other (72), and all 9 full (72+9=81)
After 80 miles, 8 care have 9 tanks (72) and no full (0+72=72)
One gives away 7 for the others, save 2 to go back (7 go on)
This gives 9 to each of the other (63), all full (8) and 1 for return (1) (63+8+1=72)
...
...
After 320 miles, 2 cars have 9 spare tanks (18) and none full (0+18=18)
One gives away 1 to the other, saves 8 to turn back (1 go on)
This gives 9 to the lone traveler (9), all full tanks (2), and eight for return (9+2+8=18)
After 360 miles, 1 car has 9 spare tanks (9) and none full.
He has no choice but to turn back.

Final Distance Reached With All Returned: 360 Miles.

Long-winded, confusing... but not in .pdf! :lol:


PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:44 pm
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Daffydil
Boot


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 28
Location: England, UK

OK, maybe I'm just a bit tired but I can't think of what your "cars as caches" solution is BoardBloke Confused

Any chance of an explanation?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:24 pm
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Ariadni
Kilroy

Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 1

must admit I think the card could have been worded better... or am I just being pedantic?

for instance, if the drivers cant leave their cars, how do they refuel? they must have extremely long arms!

isn't a one-gallon tank a stupidly small size?

Laughing

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:06 pm
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groovygirl20
Veteran


Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Lincolnshire! ENGLAND!! WOO!!

Quote:
We'd like to thank Neill for pointing out the cars can travel very far if they are allowed to wait around in the middle of the desert. However, the car's can't do this as air conditioning alone won't cope with the blistering heat.


lol
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:47 am
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Mustavagander
Guest


I dont get this I tried working it from the other end and my distance is rather farther. Im open to objection though Smile
Spoiler (Rollover to View):


The last car with its 10 gallons can do 200 miles each way (400/2)
The last two cars can do 100 miles each way with their extra 10 gallons (400/4)
This is the 10 gallons for the last car and the 10 gallons between the two of them for the last two cars
The last 3 cars can do 66.67 miles each way with their 10 gallons (400/6)


The formula therefore is 400/2 +400/ + 400/6 .........400/18

On excel this works out at 565.79

Am I missing something

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:32 am
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Phant
Veteran

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 72
Location: mostly London

I too did it "the Neill way", so as some people seem interested in this I shall do my best to explain.

First of all, Mustavagander's method is correct only if opened cans can be exchanged between cars (and if "car caches" are allowed). However, the wave 0.5 card states only unopened tins may be transfered so the actual answer would be less than this. (In ollie's transcription his second "extra gallon" should read "unopened")

So assuming cars can be used as caches...
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
9 cars travel 40 miles using 9 gallons of fuel, 1 car then waits with 9 gallons (for return trip of all cars).
8 cars continue with 72 gallons between them for another 40 miles.
At this point the cars have 64 gallons between them but need 8 of those for return trip. This leaves 56 available.
Since only 6 cars are needed to carry this fuel, 2 cars can wait here.
...
this continues with 1 car acting as a cache every 40 miles until...

at 240 miles 1 car waits with 3 gallons and 2 continue with 10 gallons each.
100 miles later they have 7.5 gallons each so one waits with 5.5 and the other continues with 9.5.
clearly this last car can use 4.75 gallons each way which means a further 190 miles.
Giving a grand total of 530 miles.

I am not 100% certain this is the furthest possible using these "rules", but it is what I came up with before realising a simpler solution was required.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:14 pm
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Scott
Entrenched


Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 1140
Location: 390 Chestnut Ridge Rd, Rochester NY, 14624, USA

I just got this card. Rather late, me. I have a bit of a complaint. I assumed the wording "..fForty miles to the gallon, which is also the capacity of .. their tanks" meant they have 40 gallon tanks, AND 40 miles to the gallon. Which, I can tell you, allows the cars to go much much fFarther. Like 1640 miles.

3 solves used up. *grumble* honestly, who ever heard of a car with a 1 gallon tank?[/spoiler]
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:14 am
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almagest
Boot

Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: London

No waiting must include no waiting at the start, otherwise it is easy to get over 360 (by having some cars start later to refuel the leader on his way back).

But I still do not see how one proves that 360 is maximal.

Any ideas?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:19 pm
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almagest
Boot

Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: London

A heuristic argument is that the key to success is to get the total burn rate for fuel down as fast as possible. Initially it is 10 gals/hr with 90 gals available, so all fuel will be burnt in 9 hrs giving a max range of 180, unless the rate is reduced.

The only way to get the rate down is to transfer fuel asap so that the car transferring can retire. The solution gives one car stopping (back at base) every 2 hours and it looks impossible to get the rate down faster than that.

But I still cannot see a proof that 360 is optimal ...

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:25 pm
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almagest
Boot

Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: London

Proving that there must be an optimal solution in which each car makes just one turn and transfers fuel only at the turn, would be a big step forward.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:30 pm
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doctorclark
Boot


Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Posts: 31
Location: San Diego

I used a little bit different of strategy than the posted solves:

The card states that "the cars can't wait around in the middle of the desert," which would suggest that they can wait around at the start, before the desert begins. Using this logic I came up with the following (sorry, almagest, I couldn't do better than others even using this reasoning):

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
5 of the cars travel 180 miles south. This leaves enough fuel for 4 of the cars to give one unopened tin each to the fifth car, which has just enough space for 4 tins. (The first four cars travel back north with just enough fuel to make it to the start.)

The 5th car now travels 180 miles farther (to 360 miles total) and turns around back north. At the time of turn-around, the remaining 4 cars set out to 180 miles south.

When the last 4 cars reach the 5th car (at the 180 mile mark) they transfer 1 tin each into the 5th car, leaving them just enough to return, and giving just enough for the 5th car to make it all the way back.


Using different numbers of cars waiting at the start, I was unable to do better than I show above.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:48 pm
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almagest
Boot

Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: London

Doctorclark. It is not hard to go more than 360 if you allow waiting at the start.
For example, A, B, C, D set off together. After 80 miles, D transfers 2 gals to each of A, B, C (leaving him with 2 gals) and returns. After another 80 miles, C transfers 2 gals to each of A, B (leaving him with 4 gals) and returns. After another 80 miles B transfers 2 gals to A (leaving B with 6 gals) and returns. A is now 240 miles out with a full tank. He drives another 160 miles (leaving him with 6 gals) and then turns around (having reached the 400 mile point) and drives 240 miles back, so that he runs out 160 miles from home. So we need to use the other cars to get him 4 gals at that moment. That is easy. They can set off together to reach the 160 mile point at the same time as A. They each have 6 gals left and need 4 gals to get back, so have 2 gals to spare. So we have overkill.
Since we know the answer is 360 we conclude that waiting around at the start is not allowed!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:28 am
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doctorclark
Boot


Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Posts: 31
Location: San Diego

Quote:
Doctorclark. It is not hard to go more than 360 if you allow waiting at the start.


Right you are, almagest: thanks for the correction (and example)...

To quote the Dude: "Yeah, my thinking about this case, man, had become very uptight..."
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:05 pm
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