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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[Puzzle] #243 Silver - Shuffled Part 2 (Read 1st Post!)
Moderators: AnthraX101, bagsbee, BrianEnigma, cassandra, Giskard, lhall, Mikeyj, myf, poozle, RobMagus, xnbomb
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FranG
Boot

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 35

 		Google for Marina Pudovkina and solitaire. You should find several papers delivered at various conferences.

The one I've read so far concluded that the best attack is one of the 3 Bs - Bribery, Blackmail or Burglary. Anybody working on that? Wink

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:22 pm
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Cabbage
Unfettered


Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 320
Location: North-East England, UK
I need a P
Well I'm posting this for two reasons

1) so that no-one else tries it (and I don't remember anyone trying this but fish me if I'm wrong);
2) in case it sparks anything off in a similar vein or a different direction et cetera et cetera et cetera.

So, here we go: although I have just finished reading Cryptonomicon, I do not consider myself a cryptographer, and recalling what was said about everything we need to solve the card being there, and needing to look at the card with "fresh eyes", I was figuring maybe the disappearing letters need to be disappeared from the explanatory text to provide the pass phrase.

Bear with me. This would not explain how Garnet managed to decipher the code, since he would not have his own narrative, but I thought I would play around with this anyway.

So I took the disappearing letters EODMF XRUTH FHURG IFULP, and a copy of the text and started reading through the story, circling each letter that I came to, e.g. the first E is in the word year, if you disappear it you get yar, then the next word with an o in is someone, rendering smeone.

Quote:
"Last year, someone found a weakness in the Academy's computer security systems and accessed several files using a program called the Djinn Worm. I helped the Perplex City Police to plug the leak but we still didn't know who was responsible and all our leads had gone cold. Then I received an anonymous note suggesting I should be at the Five of Cups bar one night.

I was waiting for something to happen while playing poker, when one of the players at my table cashed out and he subtly indicated he wanted to talk to me. At a convenient pause in the game, I walked over to meet him at the bar, where he quickly pressed a pack of cards into my hand and whispered, "If entropy wins, outward looks should leave you cold." He then promptly walked out.

When I returned home, I spread the cards out on my table and looked for any marks or signs, but they were all new and untouched, apart from one joker which had a star on it. It took me some time to figure out what he was trying to tell me - can you decode the message and find out who created the Worm?"


It gives:
yarsmeonefounAcadeysilesPerpleesponsibleorenivenigtotovesinswhchigretel

It was with growing excitement that I neared the end of the text and it looked like all of the letters were going to be used up, but alas, when I got to the end I was missing a P.

So basically after all that, you can ignore me Rolling Eyes

But at least I'm still having a go at it Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:33 pm
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wonkothesane
Boot


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Newcastle

 		shuffled
EODMFXRUTHWBBMCHGFIBLXCQYWEZFLITHPJLFHWYETKWYLJOTYYNGYJBIOGIFUVMR

XIHGURAGXHNQHRSXAWJUFJTAMSMMOSMVBAAKPGVVWXOVMYKZPLLULFHURGIFULP

If entropy wins , outward looks leave you COLD
additional clues :

[look closely ...could shed some light.
we might need a fresh pair of eyes to reframe]

(look at the outward letters of the clues in whole and what they spell)

If = starting position ?
entropy= information theory , how many bits are coded
wins = comes first (W...I...N...S... final word order???)
'outward looks' = cryptic crossword of code words appearance
'leave you' = regarding putting information in or out. Leave 'U' ?
'COLD' - the key word here.

Physical state of cold on card leaves outer letters in

Significance of repetition of GIFU both lines ? (IF)

you cold = UCOLD = COULD or GOULD or COLUD or GOLUD or CULOD (outward looks - word resembles shape of ColD)

Huffman entropy - information on the code is coded in the code. (5's and 3's)

guessword of 'vigil' in solitaire gives a solitaire keyword match of DISCLOSE. (virgil , two 'I's' - virgil kim?)

clues of letter placement to move 'CLOUD' (shed some light clue - transposition cipher?)

GIFU and GIFU are they the two jokers ?? G=C I=A F=R U=D. (CARD) get rid of them ? keep them ??

hmm word shapes and diction ? you cold, ye cold,could (eye)

__________________________________________________________________________________

ok they were yesterdays notes - anyone who has the card look at it again , on the inward side to the left - says hot going down , also says this on the outward side to the right. along with above that ey ad eye . ive gone with the text on the left - iwpicoqhot woouhfcw ltacdoaa and have somehow translated it too (by removing cold) 'as ta box shows xiii' making me think 13 is a significant number here for decoding. This whole shuffled card is stacked with information - i think the problem is of information entropy - a good way of looking at it is to compare it to an image . you can read what it has to say on decreasing information entropy whilst keeping quality in a gif image (GIFU?) here : http://www.webreference.com/dev/gifanim/summary.html

and so it goes and its past my bedtime again...

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:30 pm
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angadeon
Boot

Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

 		That gave me an idea, Wonko.

To summarize the link he gave, entropy in an imagine is "random" factors that increase the filesize, in animations jagged lines take more to render than smooth lines, and 19 shades of blue will take more memory than 15 shades of blue, when the latter will wind up looking just as good, for the most part.

Translating that to this problem: We need a key for the solitair cypher. A high entropy in the ouside letters will leave us cold. By lowering the visual entropy, we might get warmer. You know, when you were a kid and your friend would hide something on you and tell you whether you were getting *hot or cold*...

So, take the 20 letters.
EODMF
XRUTH
FHURG
IFULP

A high entropy in this visually would mean an increase in unique/uncommon letters. EODMXTGILP are the unique letters. To lower the entropy, we would have to change one of these letters into a letter that already exists, removing the uniqueness.
XRUTH into TRUTH

Visually, they are very similar, an X could conceivably be mistaken for a T under the right circumstances, and we've succeeded in lowering the entropy of that one line by eliminating one uncommon letter.
O could be mistaken for D, G for E, E for F, etc, etc...

I'm attempting to work on the whole 20 in this way. I don't actually think the second line is TRUTH right now, but it was the easiest example I could pull out.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:15 pm
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wonkothesane
Boot


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Newcastle

 		deck order
I had another idea that the deck order might be Clubs Spades Hearts Diamonds (CSHD)

the C and D being the outer letters of Cold , the S and H being the first letters of should , with 'O' and 'U' removed (outward looks SHOULD leave YOU COLD?

Does anyone who has thier head round the solitaire algorythm thinks this makes a difference ?

I fired CSHD at the java applet (dictionary attack using scrabble sowpods dictionary) for solitaire and one string it returned was :
Solitaire keyword = SHUFFLED
KKLQGKWWSDJUCIXQJQBQNESGMZBCMHYMSFQREIWVPCZVOKABURHJUORZOVBVCHSDWVNUXIJUTHLTUNGWHMEMHMQZKHHEHUCOTXKRDUWJZQTJ

full result here :

http://www.northbands.co.uk/chsd.htm

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:39 am
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AtionSong
Unfettered


Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 352
angadeon wrote:
That gave me an idea, Wonko.
So, take the 20 letters.
EODMF
XRUTH
FHURG
IFULP

A high entropy in this visually would mean an increase in unique/uncommon letters. EODMXTGILP are the unique letters. To lower the entropy, we would have to change one of these letters into a letter that already exists, removing the uniqueness.
XRUTH into TRUTH

Visually, they are very similar, an X could conceivably be mistaken for a T under the right circumstances, and we've succeeded in lowering the entropy of that one line by eliminating one uncommon letter.
O could be mistaken for D, G for E, E for F, etc, etc...

I'm attempting to work on the whole 20 in this way. I don't actually think the second line is TRUTH right now, but it was the easiest example I could pull out.


I like this theory. I like it a lot. And yes, the second line can't be "truth", because the second "T" would need to be changed.

Just some thoughts by me.

Assuming this is correct, the puzzle is-
Code:
????F
?RU?H
FHUR?
?FU??

This makes me skeptical, because, assuming that these are 4 five letter words, one starts with "FHUR". And if not, FH is an odd combination of letters. This leads me to believe that it may be a reverse: we only need replacement letters for the F, U, R, and H. Then we get:

Code:
EODM?
X??T?
????G
I??LP


If this is the case, then perhaps this is read down in columns. (E-X-?-I-O-etc.). The puzzle then becomes:

EX?IO???D???MT?L??GP

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:26 pm
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wonkothesane
Boot


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Newcastle

 		there might be some mileage in that theory - i definitely think that the letters need to be whittled down somehow - . however im hedging my bets with the solitaire thing still , after that last post did some googling and i dont think its any coincidence that www.cshd.com is a harley shop (ref to the bikes on the card) - the image shows a card out of the box , so tomorrow i think ill try removing all the letter groupings with 'Y' which leaves 103 , two decks minus one card and see what more nonsense the random flying spaghetti monster throws my way.

edit - entropy has won for today.

i used the above to bring the deck size down to 52

WBBMC HGFIB WEZHN QHRSX AWJUF JUVMR XIHGU RAGXF LITHP JBIOG IF

which i have ordered in groups of 13 to CHSD from the default order , using the bridge standard decking as a starting point , leaving 26 letters

which could be key text :

T AM SMMOS MVBAA KPGVV WXOVM LUL

to summarise , I have used the word 'YOU' from the phrase to get this far.

but am still no closer to a decode.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:23 pm
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wonkothesane
Boot


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Newcastle

 		talking to myself
hi i realise this thread has gone cold. im talking to myself now - am playing with the idea now that the text is RC2 encoded as firstly rc2 is a 128 'word' encryption code - as is the text 128 letters and secondly as i base 64 encoded 'ifentropywinsoutwardlookshouldleaveyoucold' which then had some pointers towars RC2. also fresh pair of eyes clue 'paiRSeeTwo' ?? im also wondering is 'look closely' could refer to the 'SSLEAY' tool for decoding >??? appreciate any thoughts (this card is so bastard hard its possible thet it could be a combination of several methods)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:20 pm
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Infernux
Guest


 		no, im pretty sure this is using the solitaire cipher. Im reading cryptonomicon right now, so if i see any hints from that i will point them out. ONe thing they talk about in it is information theory, which entropy has to do with.

Also, i remember reading this somewhere, but i heard that

"If entropy wins, outward looks should leave you cold" can be annagrammed to...

"Look closer, and you will see the password, voyeur"

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:44 pm
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wonkothesane
Boot


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Newcastle

 		...
I agree that the solitaire cipher plays a part , but really i think it is a tool to get you further down the rabbit hole. Ive had some really interesting results from firing guess and intuitive phrases at the java version of the cipher (using the sowpods scrabble dictionary attack method) and also have had some luck playing with various RUBY implementations of it - have a look up the thread for that program. I think i should point out by the way though (as i noticed two days ago) that the text saying FUVMR could actually be FLIVMR - have a look at the bottom of the 'U' and the bottom of the other U's on the card - which obviously impacts on anything you do to decrypt this - if the initial text is wrong. I think this card might be in a pair or triad , possibly with card 90 and thirteenth labour....

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:09 pm
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Joe_the_OOF
Guest


 		Possible insight
On card 257, there is a list of people who submitted puzzles.
Maybe researching these people and work they have done
in the past would provide a clue as to the solution to this problem.
Then again, maybe not.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:09 pm
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jaikaiman
Boot


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 55

 		I've been looking very closely at the FUVMR, and I think it is definitely a U...ah this card and its twists and turns...lol
_________________
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PerplexMe.co.uk

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:57 pm
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wonkothesane
Boot


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Newcastle

 		...
Have a look at it again , only this time using the 'lucida bright' font in word!

If youve got the card , draw some lines on it with the lines allready there that intersect the a and n of china. look closely at the font that is used for the text. enlarge the card in photoshop and try some mixes with or without the alpha channell - try using the adobe 'cube shuffler' plug in to resolve this. there is a lot of colour in the top left of the card. though kiteway might say "A dog on a leash doesn't care how colourful the strap is." perhaps we can prove him wrong.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:16 pm
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ariock
Has a Posse


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 762
Location: SF East Bay

 		Re: ...
wonkothesane wrote:
Have a look at it again , only this time using the 'lucida bright' font in word!

If youve got the card , draw some lines on it with the lines allready there that intersect the a and n of china. look closely at the font that is used for the text. enlarge the card in photoshop and try some mixes with or without the alpha channell - try using the adobe 'cube shuffler' plug in to resolve this. there is a lot of colour in the top left of the card. though kiteway might say "A dog on a leash doesn't care how colourful the strap is." perhaps we can prove him wrong.


God, I wish someone would solve this card.
_________________
"It says, 'Let's BEE friends'...and there's a picture of a bee!" -Ralph Wiggum
When the Apocalypse comes, it'll be in base64.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:33 pm
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wonkothesane
Boot


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Newcastle

 		...
trying the beale cipher with text from the main block
wheni.txt
Description  Beale cipher of last paragraph "When I..." trying triplets from EODMF...
 txt

 Download 
Filename  wheni.txt 
Filesize  1.83KB 
Downloaded  154 Time(s) 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:06 pm
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