unforum

[Ozy_y2k]

Blow off the dust, blood on the tracks, days gone by

[Tien_Le]

On that very fine and humorous note...is *any*body making a new game these days? I miss all that spec about who is PMing what.

[Cortana]

Re: Blow off the dust, blood on the tracks, days gone by

[Ozy_y2k]

'Twas not my intention...it was really more of a swipe at ABC/Disney and the corporate ad agencies and other bandwagon-jumpers w/r/t creating ARG games, and a strong reaffirmation of the value of the indie game maketplace in my view, but I can easily see how it can be read that way (especially with my in-retrospect-unfortunate highlighting of the SHOVE in the last sentence).

For the record, once and for all, and to clear the air, I DO NOT HAVE ANY PERSONAL ISSUE with ANY of the owners or administrators or members of CollectiveDetective.org. (I may have PROFESSIONAL issues with them, but I am endeavoring to keep any disagreements I might have on that level whenever possible.) Many of the people who belong to and operate in that forum, I consider my friends, and I have a tremendous respect for their puzzle solving skills and their sense of intelligence and initiative. As far as operating the business on a for-profit level goes, I also have no objection to that. It may very well be that CD.org is strongly positioned in the long run to handle the large volumes necessary to sustain the "pro" games such as Push or even Tron 2.0 if it ever goes live. To that, I say: more power to them. As a part-time business owner myself, I know full well the pain that one feels in having to make a capital outlay with tremendous risk and no guarantee whatsoever for return.

However, in playing in a still-growing marketplace like this one is, everyone is bound to settle into the niche that suits them best. Neither Unforum, nor any other ARG forum of this type, should try to be all things to all people is what I am saying. My current personal preference, and the personal preferences of some of the more vocal members of other boards, is to play "for free" whenever possible. Other, equally vocal members of various communities have enthusiastically extolled the virtues of limited-access pay boards like CD.org, and more power to them.

I hope, at the end of the day, that CD.org is wildly successful. I also hope that Unfiction is wildly successful. I think they can be concurrently successful in different subgenres of ARG players, and I even expect that there might be some overlap between the two. To use a strained analogy: just because I prefer to spend my money at the art-house watching obscure foreign films, so to speak, does not mean that I begrudge people the right to pay for and enjoy more mainstream Hollywood entertainments.

Ozy

[Cortana]

Shall we dance?

[Ozy_y2k]

Well, Cort, you can call me whatever names you want to, and that's fine with me. I think it's fairly open public knowledge at this point that I am formally representing Steve Peters and ARGN in certain matters relating to CD.org, but I'm not going to violate my attorney-client relationship with Steve or anyone else to get into a pissing contest with you about it. So I'm not going to directly comment on Collective Detective's alleged "Non Disclosure agreement", or anything else relating to that dispute, as it relates to ARGN. (And yes, not that it's your business, but I am being compensated for my services, since my representation IS based in a formal business relationship.)

As far as Unfiction goes, though, I am not representing SpaceBass currently, nor do I have any specific knowledge regarding his specific situation or circumstance, so I feel free to therefore comment solely as a detached observer, not as an interested party or as Unfiction's lawyer.

Last time I checked, phpBB forum software (which this Unforum is currently being run on) is generally commercially available and is not what CD.org is using for its proprietary site design or organization. I don't see SpaceBass or anyone on this forum using or attempting to use *any* proprietary technology of CD.org's in running this joint. As far as any alleged "stealing" of general business concepts relating to the discussion of ARG games; well, they aren't legally protectable in the first instance, and even if they were, there is an open question as to whether CD.org or ANY other party (including ARGN, Microsoft, Elan Lee, or whomever) can lay claim to any general ARG-based business concept that the folks at Cloudmakers had not already put into the public domain many months earlier.

The fact is, thanks to the well-established antitrust laws of our fine nation, once a definable market for ANYTHING arises -- whether it be ARG games or software products or genetically engineered plum-apricot fruits -- it is unreasonable not to expect instant competition in the dealing of that product, assuming entry costs into the marketplace are reasonably low. Furthermore, it is clearly illegal to attempt to prevent such competition from occurring through abuse of contracts or of the legal process. You are only allowed under the law to protect that unique technology which you can claim a valid patent or copyright in; and your right to do that usually requires some degree of innovation or substantial improvement over prior existing art, by the creator claiming legal protections.

"Non-Disclosure" does not mean "non-compete", and no individual, company or entity can engage in blatantly predatory or anticompetitve behavior or bullying under the guise of it being allegedly protected by a vague contract. I don't know if CD or anyone else is doing this or not. I certainly hope they aren't, and I haven't formally accused them of doing so, nor would I until and unless I have concrete proof in hand to back such a serious allegation up.

And that is the end of my rant on that little process. As far as I am concerned, if you wanna take the last word here, you are welcome to it, but my concern as a player from this point forward is solely to get an enjoyable little indie ARG community rolling again, here or wherever, but preferably here.

Ozy

[krystyn]

I personally credit Yahoogroups.com and their laggy posting times during the Beast for the proliferation of alternative message boards and communication devices being utilized.

YMMV.