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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Ephemeral » ARG: Eldritch Errors
[meta] Game Mechanics
Moderators: aliendial, celina63, konamouse, rose, thebruce
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roseModerator
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117


they do like us.

hmmm. I read through this a bit. I know we are all confused. I did call and definitely got a response. My reading of the post about leaving messages in Craigslist was that maybe the Craigs list "world" was the one we weren't making much of a dent in. I started thinking of all the fun Craigslist responses.

Maybe BA can interpret dreams and we should also be asking her questions?

One thing I know beyond a doubt is that these PMs don't make fun of players. They wouldn't bother to make games for people for free if they didn't respect the players. I think anyone who has played their games know that the PMs themselves care about the players, this community and making good and challenging games.

Sometimes their cranky characters respond in their cranky in-character ways, but I never took that as the PMs making fun of us. I remember that Virgil, the grouchy villain of Art of the Heist often seemed rude to us. He was a rude guy! We shouldn't mistake what the characters do and say as evidence of how the PMs feel. I don't think anything they have done in this game is disrespectful.

I think that BA is giving us hints - our problem is we don't understand them exactly. I think we need to try to play this game in a different way than we have been. I think it was j5 who told me that he thought we had been using all our old tricks and they aren't working. So we need to try something new.

I was really busy this weekend and I haven't been able to go through too much of this. Today is another busy day, but I'll try to look at it some more.

Edit to add: one thing I don't understand is this idea that just because we are confused and disoriented (which I think is the effect the PMs are trying to get - the same thing you would get at a movie where you aren't sure what is happening- just a guess on my part) mean that the PMs don't respect the players? I know in Year Zero many people spent hours banging their heads on that number puzzle 24.xx.y that wasn't solved until the end, I don't remember anyone saying that 42 doesn't like us by giving us a puzzle we can't solve. Why is this game different? Because BA sounds snappish? Or are we frustrated because our egos (I include myself in this!!) tell us that we know how to plays ARGs and we shouldn't be stuck like this. The fact that we are stuck means it is a problematic game design - not that we are stuck in our usual ways of playing? Is this just our own egos taking a hit that we aren't comfortable with?

This game is a cool design. Using Craigslist is a very believable design element. Using a phone number that isn't tollfree is also very believable. We don't know why BA needs our dreams, we just know she does. Maybe as in the number puzzles, we won't find out until the end. Maybe she is using our dreams for evil? We can't know and she can't tell us if that is the final secret.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 1:20 pm
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Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be

I've been thinking all day about how to say what I wanted to say in this thread. I could try to put all my thoughts down, but rose pretty much covered them and in a better way than I probably would have. Very Happy

/me hugs rose
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 3:49 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

<shrug> As far as I'm concerned, if people are having fun (and watching people try to telnet to open ports in #stfeline has been fun for me) the game is working. If people are bored or frustrated, the game isn't working. Clearly, that's also happening in some areas. So, I'd say there are some parts of this game that are working, and some that aren't.

And I think in general ARG players are a creative enough bunch that while individuals may get stuck, if the solution is out there and there are enough indicators, even if they're subtle, that people can legitimately be expected to find their way to whatever solution the PMs have in mind, I think someone around here (or maybe a clever newbie with a fresh perspective) will get it eventually.

I have faith in the community. Smile

That said, it's a dance -- a dynamic, fluid process, and if the player base isn't getting it for an extended period of time, and the PMs don't give different indicators to help people get back on track, that's a problem. I'm not sure we've reached that point, yet, though, since I don't see many people saying it's so frustrating that they're going to stop playing, which to me would be the red flag.

Either way, however, I think there's a fine line between being confusing in a way that intrigues people enough to look deeper, and confusing in a way that puts them off, and that line may not be in the same place for everyone, so I'm not sure de-legitimizing people's feelings of frustration by telling them their egos are getting in the way helps anyone.

Besides, after watching the creativity and smarts of the people in #stfeline today, I have every confidence in the flexibility and resources of this group of players. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:18 pm
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roseModerator
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

hehe.

It looks like the other world we weren't making progress in was the world of the lost bandwidth. BA needs hackers. Laughing


Oh, and in case anyone wonders, I totally have faith in the community too. Rolling Eyes Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:25 pm
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

I third the faith motion.
But I also have to say that a lot of people would probably have dropped already, were it not solely for the GMD stamp.
I guess I'm including myself in that group.
Though the hacking stuff is clearing out the cobwebs a little.


ETA: Not having played a GMD game, previously...
Is there an "M.Night" aspect to them, typically?
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:33 pm
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sior
Greenhorn

Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 9

Probably a very rare foray. But. I've lurked, been confused, played with telnet etc, etc.

Gut feeling is at this moment, we are meant to be confused. The CL posts take you into the imagery of madness. That's a frustrating place to be. Probably.

But there are clues there. How else would the package have been found at a Tarot card reader in NYC ? At the moment, there is lot of talk about the dream posts. Are they a key to the CL dream lock?
Has anyone tried posting a dream with ALL the phrases from the torn pages?

Are all the words a key? I've no idea.

I'll keep lurking here and there for now. The language of the CL posts alone is enough to peak my interest.

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:03 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
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Rogi Ocnorb wrote:
ETA: Not having played a GMD game, previously...
Is there an "M.Night" aspect to them, typically?


If by '"M.Night" aspect' you mean "plots with holes you could sail the Galactica through that are resolved by vaguely spiritual touchy-feely mumbo-jumbo that on second glance has zero content whatsoever, but from which you cannot look away because the cinematography is gorgeous and it's all bound together by a ravishingly beautiful score by He Who Elevates Everything He Touches (James Newton Howard) that somehow, miraculously, manages to musically resolve dangling plot threads, or at least bewitches you so thoroughly that you don't care about the absurdity of the whole thing until Maestro Howard stops singing to you..."

Where was I?

Erm, no, I'd characterize neither AotH nor WIBS as "Shyamalan-like." Smile
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:09 pm
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konamouseModerator
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

I'm so lost when it comes to computers, hacking, internet stuff like this. I'm here for character interaction & story. When it gets technical (as it has this past week) my eyes glaze over and I just nod my head incomprehensibly.

I can only hope there is more story soon.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:15 pm
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danteIL
Unfictologist


Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990

konamouse wrote:
I can only hope there is more story soon.


Rogi Ocnorb wrote:
I guess I'm including myself in that group.
Though the hacking stuff is clearing out the cobwebs a little.


But they got, Diff'rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.


PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:21 pm
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

I see funny people.

That was great, Phae.

Maybe even enough to hold me through another round of CL dreamspeak.

Thanks Exclamation
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:23 pm
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konamouseModerator
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

danteIL wrote:
But they got, Diff'rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.


What you talk'n about, dante?
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:28 pm
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cissmiace
Entrenched


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 867
Location: Manchester UK

konamouse wrote:
I'm so lost when it comes to computers, hacking, internet stuff like this. I'm here for character interaction & story. When it gets technical (as it has this past week) my eyes glaze over and I just nod my head incomprehensibly.

I can only hope there is more story soon.


God I couldnt agree more. I go over to SO and try to understand but all I see is 'blahblahblahblahblahblah' Laughing I can make a damn fine website, but as far as hacking goes, I dont understand it one bit.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 6:35 pm
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sinyx
Decorated


Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Brooklyn, NY

konamouse wrote:
I'm so lost when it comes to computers, hacking, internet stuff like this. I'm here for character interaction & story. When it gets technical (as it has this past week) my eyes glaze over and I just nod my head incomprehensibly.

I can only hope there is more story soon.


No kidding. I hope those who actually understand what the techies over at SO are talking about crack this soon. I'm still intrigued by it all, but feel pretty useless right now. Sad

And about the whole game mechanics thing, Rose summed it all up perfectly!

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 6:43 pm
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Occultus
Boot

Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 37

James Stone wrote:
As for the hacking aspect, I am a bit more experienced, but I still have a reservation. How far are the PM's wanting us to take this? I have dropped a few hints at brute forcing the servers in order to get a rise out of the PM's and some sort of direction, but none has been forthcoming. I would like to know where the boundaries are before Interpol are on the phone Very Happy


Regarding our earlier concerns, it looks like the Sentries have taken note:

Themagician wrote:
I have the OK from the hosting provider for leaving the ports open and having you, fine folks, connect to them without Marie having to get a second job. Smile

I guess they must be trying to redeem themselves for all the hard times they caused us in the past.


As I said before, I wouldn't count on that to cover your back if anyone decides to brute force the server and causes any peripheral damage (for example anything that could be considered to be a DoS attack, or risks crashing the server for real) - but it looks like we're definitely ok to poke around the services and folders that are IG, so long as we play nice Wink


---
edited to fix the 2nd quote - I really should use preview more

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 6:51 pm
Last edited by Occultus on Mon May 14, 2007 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

Kill the Gibson!

Wish I had the slightest idea how to even start. Embarassed
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:01 pm
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