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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Iris (Halo 3)
[Spec] Do you grok Robert A. Heinlein?
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jules
Kilroy

Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 2

 		[Spec] Do you grok Robert A. Heinlein?
Heinein's 100th birthday, Stranger in a Strange Land and SOTA
I've been doing a little research on Heinlein's novels with the hope of finding something that will help crack open SOTA. I've started this post with the idea that this can be where we try examine any links to Heinlein's work, as it relates to SOTA. There are a bunch of threads about the DoYouGrok? address, but I wanted a place to discuss broader Heinlein references. I'm no Heinlein expert but there's probably a whole lot of stuff in his work that's going to be referenced in this ARG and there are a couple of reasons why I think this.

Heinlein, were he alive, would be turning 100 on 07/07/07. It's been pointed out elsewhere Bungie's love of the number seven. All those sevens coinciding with a 100th birthday? It could be a coincidence that Heinlein's work was chosen as a literary theme for this ARG but I doubt it - I expect to see a lot more references when membership for SOTA opens up. It's interesting to note that Heinlein wrote a novel called The Puppet Masters.

This is reallly obvious, and has been discussed elsewhere a lot - the email address DoYouGrok? However, it's only been discussed as a word and only in passing as one of the few the only concrete references on the website, hidden albeit. To use the word 'grok' is to show you are a Heinlein fan and telegraph your appreciation of his work. Heinlein was a highly rational man, a scientist, a philosopher and about as far from being a flake as you can get - he was politically radical, but not in a crazy way. David George is no flake and he makes it very clear that SOTA is not a UFO cult, but meant to be a serious investigation of the influence of aliens on ancient civilization. He's a notary public (ever met one? they're very serious), which is a fairly similar job to a Fair Witness, a job that is fairly important in Stranger in a Strange Land (SIASL), the novel from which 'grok' comes.
The only words highlighted in the main body of text on the SOTA website are weblinks and the phrase 'lex parsimoniae', Occam's razor. Here's a quote from SIASL:
Quote:

"..Because on Mars the 'ghosts' are by far the most important and most powerful and much the most numerous part of the population. The ones still alive, the corporate ones, are the hewers of wood and drawers of water, servants to the Old Ones."
Jubal nodded. "Okay. I'll never boggle at slicing with Occam's razor. While it runs contrary to my own experience, my experience is limited to this planet-provincial. All right, son, you're scared that they might destroy us?"
Mike shook his head. "Not especially. I think-this is not a grokking but a mere guess-that they might do one of two things: either destroy us or attempt to conquer us culturally, make us over into their own image."


In SIASL, the Old Ones are dead but they communicate with the living, Obi-Wan-style. How this ties into Iris, or even if 'lex parsimoniae' does, I don't know, but it was made red on the website for a reason, I'm sure. I can quote that passage at greater length if anyone wants, including a reference to the Biblical Flood on the previous page.

Any big Heinlein fans out there? I've only read a couple of his novels and he published 32. SIASL is worth reading, BTW. It was a hugely influential book and is a true sci-fi classic. It's also very accessible and maintains a really interesting premise - that language can be an element of human evolution. Even if it turns out to be a red herring in this ARG, it's definitely worth checking out.

I'm not going to study bacteria or astronomy or HTML to take part in this ARG because I'd be starting from scratch, but I'm convinced studying Heinlein is something that will lead to something. Anyone with me? Apologies if this is a bit random, but I've got about seven leads I'm following in the novel and limited time to really do the research as well as not really knowing that much about Heinlein's works and less about Halo (I only played the two Xbox games earlier this year).

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:00 am
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redct
Entrenched


Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1233

 		That is really great spec! He wrote "The Puppet Masters"? Well, that's quite an interesting coincidence... There's no way that could be accidental. Also the quote by Isaac Newton has some significance - maybe it's referring to the fact we should be looking for something bigger rather than something like fussing over emails.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:17 am
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StrobeKnow
Greenhorn

Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 5

 		In SIASL, and another Heinlein book dealing with Mars (Red Planet), Martians have two phases of life. The young exist in the same physical world that we do and when they mature, they move to a different dimension/plane/state of existence) In Red Planet, the Martians exist physically, but most of their being is in another dimension(s). Less details is given in SiaSL, though Mike was raised by Martians, you get a feeling that mature Martians had no physical aspect, as they left their physical body behind when they moved on to their other life phase.

Regardless, I think that 7/7/7 has been chosen for numerical reasons. I can't see any real tie-in to a Heinlein work. However, I've read most of his stuff a few times, so I'll let you know if something comes up.

Finally, go read some Heinlein!

EDIT: Occam's razor was brought up a few times in Heinlein books, and is common enough to make the connection exceedingly tenuous.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:38 pm
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robjobva
Boot

Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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 		Starship Troopers is one of my favorite novels, but it's been about 4 years since I've read it. It's a short read, but I can't think of any specific items or events in the book that relate to this other than that he liked the whole idea of technologically enhanced warriors that have been trained brutally working in tight-knit units to fight off alien threats. Would you like to know more? Wink

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:34 pm
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ilmaestro
Greenhorn

Joined: 28 Jun 2007
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 		Whether anything comes of it or not, I sure enjoyed reading the OP.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:06 pm
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Shlonster
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Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 74

 		This spec made it worthwhile to check the site today. Pretty sweet.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:38 pm
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MariusDarkwolf
Decorated


Joined: 27 Jun 2007
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Location: Less, Okiehoma please
StrobeKnow wrote:
In SIASL, and another Heinlein book dealing with Mars (Red Planet), Martians have two phases of life. The young exist in the same physical world that we do and when they mature, they move to a different dimension/plane/state of existence) In Red Planet, the Martians exist physically, but most of their being is in another dimension(s). Less details is given in SiaSL, though Mike was raised by Martians, you get a feeling that mature Martians had no physical aspect, as they left their physical body behind when they moved on to their other life phase.



I'm sorry but they actually had three phases in both books.
They had a nymph phase (the ball that the main char carried around in Red Planet), an adult corporal phase, and then the afterlife phase. Though that's just a minor nitpick, it may be important.

As to something very spooky with The puppet masters, the basic premise is that a host of small parisitic beings come to earth, and start trying to take over by piggybacking onto the host's nervous system. Whats an even spookier tie in with what Bungie's posted about the flood, is that the puppet masters, have full access to their hosts memorys, and they have 'hive mind' so to speak that they update and share every time they've been out of contact. All of that appears to tie into the flood mythos pretty well.

Just thought I'd share

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:30 am
Last edited by MariusDarkwolf on Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shonst'sdrunk
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 		I'm drunk, but I totally saw an article on reddit today that dealt with Heinlein (sp?)..... I though it was pretty weird that I had never heard of the dude until today, and then 2 hours later read an article about him... also, it mentioned his book "The Puppet Masters"... it was SO strange. Anyways, I would love if this worked out, it would give me a reason to read something. Later.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:40 am
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carbonize
Boot

Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 59
Location: Bristol, UK

 		Ok so I think we can safely say that the Halo universe is based on both the works of Iain M. Banks and Robert A. Heinlein.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:30 am
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StrobeKnow
Greenhorn

Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
carbonize wrote:
Ok so I think we can safely say that the Halo universe is based on both the works of Iain M. Banks and Robert A. Heinlein.


How about Larry Niven??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworld

Also, thanks for the correction Marius, I haven't read Red Planet is a few years now.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:47 pm
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carbonize
Boot

Joined: 01 Jul 2007
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Location: Bristol, UK

 		Possibly or possibly that's who inspired Iain M Banks when he was writing Consider Phlebas. It's generally believed that Halo was inspired by Iain M Banks work partly due to the Halo looking like the ring in Consider Phlebas but also because of the ships names being of the same naming convention he used.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:05 pm
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