Return to Unfiction unforum
 a.r.g.b.b 
FAQ FAQ   Search Search 
 
Welcome!
New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.
Website Restoration Project
This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.
Announcements
This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.
This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.
 
The time now is Wed Nov 13, 2024 12:59 am
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)
View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum
Calendar
 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
R.I.P., suspension of disbelief
Moderators: imbri, ndemeter
View previous topicView next topic
Page 1 of 1 [6 Posts]  
Author Message
Ozy_y2k
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 460
Location: Carmel, Indiana

R.I.P., suspension of disbelief

As we as viewing audiences get more jaded (and pretend to be more sophisticated), we have increased the level of our meta-relationship with our entertainment content providers. No longer do most of us with lifelong subscriptions to Variety or Billboard magazines content ourselves with speaking in excitable tones about our favorite shows' characters or plotlines. How passe. Nope, now it's all about formal, structural, or economic issues, such as what the weekend box-office take was, or whether the director is getting back-end points off the ultimate gross, or how many script polishers worked on the final draft of the screenplay. This approach certainly belies a certain cosmopolitan level of sophistication about the ultimate process of manufacturing a piece of entertainment, but does it really give any insight whatsoever into the particpatory pleasures of immersing (sorry, the word seems to fit) yourself in that entertainment?

I have noticed, especially in the CTW forums of late, a lot of meta issues bleeding around outside the edges of the game and into what is really supposed to be a purely "in-game" discourse. By that I mean, we have a putative "interaction" forum, where players are now more OPENLY concerned with and critical of things like lapses in PM-written continuity and behind-the-scenes authorship of certain emails than they are of playing along, in-character, and suspending their own willful disbelief in order to be a character-actor in the game universe.

I am of the belief, personally, that "game is game" and "meta is meta," and, while it is perfectly permissible for the two to exist side-by-side alongside each other, they should not mix. We have a separate META Discussion forum on this board for a reason.

For players to strategize over the content of a particular email sent, because they hope and expect to provoke a particular reaction from a CHARACTER, is one thing; however, a blatantly open attempt to collude to provoke a reaction from a particular PM is, it appears to me, a bit of cheating. Not in keeping with the spirit of the game, harrumph harrumph, bad show old chap, and all that good stuff. I mean, do you sit in the movie theater and spoil your fellow patrons' enjoyment of a movie by shouting out at random intervals during tender romatic moments: "Aaaaaargh, I can TOTALLY see the boom mike in that shot!!! Somebody fire that cinematographer!"?

Please, stop the insanity.

O

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:39 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address
 Back to top 
Simulacra
Veteran


Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 123
Location: Down the rabbithole

Re: R.I.P., suspension of disbelief

Ozy_y2k wrote:
I am of the belief, personally, that "game is game" and "meta is meta," and, while it is perfectly permissible for the two to exist side-by-side alongside each other, they should not mix. We have a separate META Discussion forum on this board for a reason.


I do not agree. If you draw a clearly visible line, stating that "this is the game and this is not", you also kill the exciting "is this real or what?" feeling in the minds of participants.

For me personally, that is what makes ARG interesting... that you really can't know what's for real and not. However, I do think that participants should respect the curtain if the PMs opt to have one.

But so you have to have one? Or are we too afraid of winding up in Wonderland?
_________________
The truth is out there, but it's keeping itself well hidden.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:56 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

Re: R.I.P., suspension of disbelief

Ozy_y2k wrote:

I have noticed, a lot of meta issues bleeding around outside the edges of the game and into what is really supposed to be a purely "in-game" discourse. By that I mean, we have a putative "interaction" forum, where players are now more OPENLY concerned with and critical of things like lapses in PM-written continuity and behind-the-scenes authorship of certain emails than they are of playing along, in-character, and suspending their own willful disbelief in order to be a character-actor in the game universe.
...
I am of the belief, personally, that "game is game" and "meta is meta," and, while it is perfectly permissible for the two to exist side-by-side alongside each other, they should not mix. We have a separate META Discussion forum on this board for a reason. .... Not in keeping with the spirit of the game, harrumph harrumph, bad show old chap, and all that good stuff. I mean, do you sit in the movie theater and spoil your fellow patrons' enjoyment of a movie by shouting out at random intervals during tender romatic moments: "Aaaaaargh, I can TOTALLY see the boom mike in that shot!!! Somebody fire that cinematographer!"?

Please, stop the insanity.

O


The reason the continuity is discussed is because we are not certain what "in game" and what is not, in part based on past puzzle clues and current game drift, it has become a question, if it is intentional, then the material is in game and should be acted upon. If it is just an "editing" mistake then it can be ignored. But in a game whose original mantral was "this is not a game" and where the initial "meta" site became "in game" and the immersiveness was to be how far the players want to go into it, then perhaps the rest is just a dressing over the "real" game.

Continuity is a big part of being able to keep our sense of belief intact. Even in Soap operas, when an actor leaves, a narrator steps out from behind the curtain to whisper "the part of John Doe is now played by ..."

If I were at a staged play, and the backdrops all fell over, could the actors continue, yes, but you can bet it will show up in any news review of the play. ANd how well the actors do in ignoring the fallen back drops will tell the audience if they are good actors or not.

I agree a "game is a game" except when the game has stated numerous times "this is not a game." Is it enought to kill my interest? That depends a lot on the author. If the story, characters and plot continue to engage me to want more, I'll continue reading. Give me Heinlein, Zelazny, or Dick, I'll keep reading, give me someone who needs more editing and polishing than was done, the book will end up either donated to a library, or traded at the second hand bookshop.

My opinion only here, take it with a grain of salt.
_________________
Magesteff
A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:27 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
Flynn
Decorated


Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 240
Location: UK

What Magesteff said Rolling Eyes

- but... I'm new to this, and what I love is the "is it actually real" feeling. With project Mu, where I first found this whole genre, and now with Acheron, I frequently find myself thinking "what if?" - what if Armageddon is about to hit? - to use an Acheron theme. For me, and again I am relatively new to this, the continuity that I've found is one of the best things for me. Even when the PM's have had to give us, the players, obvious (with hindsight *damn that pale horse*) puzzles in order to get further, the suspension of disbelief has not been difficult.

I'm rambling, but what I want to say is that the continuity I've seen in this genre is way beyond what I've seen in film & TV recently - and potential critics would do well to see that!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:44 pm
 View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

Re: R.I.P., suspension of disbelief

Ozy_y2k wrote:
I am of the belief, personally, that "game is game" and "meta is meta," and, while it is perfectly permissible for the two to exist side-by-side alongside each other, they should not mix. We have a separate META Discussion forum on this board for a reason.



I wonder how Ozy's views on this have changed since last year, especially now that he's got a PM credit under his belt. Ahem.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:51 am
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
Ozy_y2k
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 460
Location: Carmel, Indiana

Precisely. And, because of that, my views on the topic really HAVEN'T changed in the past year, if anything they've just stubbornly calcified. I mean, people know "me" out there, this little bundle of neuroses and personality tics that we like to call "Ozy". But for anyone to specifically play a game that they knew (or suspected) I was PMing, with an eye toward solely trying to provoke ME (and not the character I'm portraying) into some sort of response, I'd be a bit disappointed. Not just in the player's own lack of interest in honing their personal role-playing skillz, but also in their lack of respect toward the game milleu as a result of their obsessive attentions to its META machinations.

To be fair, a little bit of "paying attention to the little man behind the curtain" goes a long way. I mean, AFTER I see a movie I am always kind of curious to rent the DVD and listen to the director's commentary, largely because I'm curious to see whether my interpretations of the film meshed with the creator's intentions, esp. with regard to subtext, symbolism, and what have you. Sometimes they do, and that's fun, and sometimes they don't, and that's fun too. And that's why I love doing "postgame PM chats" and all sorts of generality-laden genre-related deconstructions on a meta-level, in forums like these. But I also know that if I were to see the "making of" feature before I ever got to see the film, I'd be denying myself the ability to react to certain scenes in the moment and my ultimate enjoyment of the final product would be irretreivably diminished.

What really interests me now, from a more intellectual standpoint, is exactly how this whole thing fits in with the "spoiler" worldview. I mean, there are always gonna be those people who wanna know JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE than what they can see unspooling on the screen (or, in our little ARG case, on the series-of-interlocking-websites) in front of their eyes. These are the sorts of people who haunt spoiler websites and get off on knowing the endings of their favorite books and movies before anyone else. And yeah, if you're asking my opinion and if it's evolved in the past year: I think that's fine, and I don't begrudge anyone the little frisson of power that they might get from knowing (or THINKING they know) a little bit more about the inner workings of a piece of art, and god knows I've even been That Guy once or twice or a dozen times. Curiosity about the creator is an inherent element of human nature; it's why we have artist biographies. (One could even argue that that's why we have RELIGIONS.) But at what point does one start scrutinizing the painter so carefully that one forgets, or loses interest, in what the painting itself looks like?

O

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:55 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address
 Back to top 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 1 [6 Posts]  
View previous topicView next topic
 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group