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Abraxas
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Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Cologne, Germany

 		mortality:
The collateral files are available as podcast and I doubt they will be removed.
Furthermore, I think you have a good picture of this latest piece of information. I've been making the wrong connections, myself. Wasn't sure which parts of the message refered to what other parts of it.

Coffeebean:
I can confirm the observation about the date...it was 2005 and I was wondering about that. It was apparently just a slip-up.

HIAS sure seems to be a meta status report. I didn't notice the calyx connection (since I'm not quite familiar with that word) and wondered what the relevance of the article might be.
Very nice. Laughing

I was thinking way too complicated earlier in this thread. We are still on the first cipher...
That's about what I can handle, I guess. Razz
I'm practicing, though.

Still..."autoreromanzo 2.5" remains a mystery. Confused


Now, what about the two password-protected comments on Germaine's site?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:32 am
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zizka
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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Location: Basement of the Alamo

 		I was going to confirm the date as well. I hadn't noticed that it had been fixed, but I saw the article wasn't there late last night.

The PW protected comments on HiaS is nothing more than the jpeg of the cypher. Not sure about the PW since this germain guy almost choked (i imagine) when I (and not surf) sent him the decrypted text.

I hadn't picked up on the calyx/organ donor reference either. I had gotten the calyx/petal reference, btu I've spent significantly more time admiring flowers that admiring kidneys. I suppose now we check librarything obsessively and wait for news from the HiaS guys.

ETA: The message I received back from Germain after sending the cracked cipher. (I translated the latin--the only word I remembered from school was "sub" and I new umbra was dark or . . . something Embarassed)

Subj: Sub umbra alarum tuarum, Jehova

cr30n, son of menoeceus.

I will check on the content of the message. Did you decrypt this personally? Are you absolutely sure of the cleartext?

I received an e-mail from Sebring an hour before yours advising me of the password I gave him yesterday to access the image file. His e-mail also advised that "Pete is St. Germain". This breach concerns me gravely.

I will contact you directly when I have more information regarding the letter.

germain
ap_letter.jpg
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:06 am
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zizka
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 157
Location: Basement of the Alamo

 		Re: HIAS
mortality wrote:
1)Should we make copies of the collateral files and mirror them someplace? We know that OIS, Green and Reece are looking for the leak. And they already cleaned up the TCJ site. Might be wise to have backups available.


The files are available on BlipTV. http://www.blip.tv/users/view/davidvalley

mortality wrote:
2)Re: moles in our midst, would a password-protected wiki be off-limits to in-game characters? More flexible than mass email once it's set up.


While we can hope the PMs will ignore information passed from here, as I hope they will, if we accidentally let a mole into the PW protected wiki, all bets are off.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:25 am
Last edited by zizka on Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Abraxas
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Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 736
Location: Cologne, Germany

 		Ok, I'm having more and more trouble to follow this...

Seriously, what breach is he talking about? And what is it with "advising"...?

When I search for the Latin quote I get lots of hits containing either "rosicrucianism" or "fama".
There are conspiracy theories about rosicrucianists. And Fama (Roman) or Pheme (Greek) is the equivalent to "rumors" or "gossip" in respective mythologies.

Is that a hint that we speculate too much? Confused

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:13 am
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zizka
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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Location: Basement of the Alamo

 		credo quiam absurdum est
I'm not sure what breach he's talking about. Obviously Germain is a tad on edge, perhaps with good reason.

that's funny about the Rose Croix. I didn;t get that stuff when I searched for translations. Since I knew what Jehovah meant, I left that word out of my search. Big mistake.

The quote surprised me a tad. I hade used Italian in the subject of my message to him: Il nome della rosa, The name of the Rose (Eco novel). To get Latin back was surprising but not too much so. I read the translation to be a tidy refernece to both secrecy (shadow) and osprey (birds). Seeing page after page of Rosicrucian links makes a few things occur to me:

(This is IG, OOG, and just generally all over the place.)
1. I may have opened the door by addressing him as "My dear Comte," a reference to the Count of St. Germain, an 18th century "alchemist" among other things. He figures large in Magical Realism and Masonic lore. One character in Foucault's Pendulum, iirc, identifies himself as being St. Germain. Which brings me to . . .
2. Maybe this is where Eco fits in, as the link between magical/masonic conspiracy and information theory. I'm no literary critic, but the idea of knowledge, both real and perceived, and controlling the flow of information is pretty much the focus of Foucault's Pendulum. Aside from that, it's a pretty good read. The referecne to Eco could be meta-meta, defing a broad theme as well as indicating where the story is heading. Though I doubt very seriously that we're going to get into Masonic-type conspiracies, the game journal specifically mentions the story being about the use, flow, and restriction of information. Eco would totally be down. Razz

ETA: If this *does* head down that path, I have a guy I can bring in who is most adept with this sort of thing.


EATA: The latin phrase in question is the closing quote of the Fama Fraternatis, the suposed establishing document of the "Fraternity of the Rose Cross." Other contexts include, p. 62 of Foucault's Pendulum and numerous people's forum sigs. It seems to originate with Chiristian Rosenreuz, thoug Germain may well have gotten it from Eco.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:44 am
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mortality
Unfettered


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 428

 		Odd n Ends
Latin, Eco, Rosicrucians, etc.
Given that Name of the Rose involved a monastic detective, it's not surprising to get Latin back. That phrase is surprising, given the multiple layers.

Rosicrucian history can be considered an allegory for what we know about PROMIS. It's associated with alchemy and a complete rethinking of Christian theology, the metaphysics of the Universe, truth, etc. ad nauseam. Original proponents of a Unified Theory of Everything. That sounds kind of like how PROMIS is purported to be perverted: a utility for holistic intelligence analysis. Rosicrucianism is supposedly Protestant in origin. The comparison would be that the status quo is the Catholic version of intelligence and Promis, etc are the counter.

I'd think Germain would be implying that in ironic fashion. Given that Rosicrucianism is more humanistic than the Catholic dogma of its time, you'd think it would have a favorable impression. And Germain doesn't strike me as a fan of orthodoxy.


Zizka: Where did the cr30n thing come from? Did it just have to do with the name/email you used to contact Germain and he was just trying to show off? If that's the case, I'm inclined to believe Germain was just being flashy with the quote, cross-referencing Osprey, Name of the Rose/Rosicrucianism, etc.

Autoreromanzo: Now this is a stretch. Google search for autoreromanzo links to a dating site. Might be worth checking out for Umberto Eco.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:42 pm
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zizka
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 		CR30N was a secure identifier, and judging by his salutation, he means this.

Now, I don;t havea copy of Foucault's Pendulum, but I think the latin quote is one of the chapter epigraphs, appearing on pg 62. The shapter it precedes features the group dreaming up faniciful terms for absurd endeavors--cutting soup, splitting a hair four ways, etc--as they prepare to make bogus occult manuscripts to fool the "diabolicals." I think it was a tidy way to tie all of the themes together.

The ideas of the rosicrucians and other similar occultists are very tied to information, their modern descendents attempting to synthesize the symbols of the world and to integrate them into their being. You get things like Tables of correspondences, which are very similar to PROMIS, now that you mention it Very Happy--a, more or less, huge database of human symbols. I doubt this story will dip too far into the metaphysical, but it is an interesting thought.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:31 pm
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chinchin
Boot

Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 10
Location: Silver Spring, MD

 		Re: T.Petal map update
PC11????
Perfidy1942 wrote:
As promised we have a timeline from T.Petal.

(click for looong URL link to google maps)

(thanks to Perfidy for the long URL hack)

Just noticed that there are 2 new points on tpetal's (tcalyx's, t.thorn's - what do we call this guy? Very Happy ) map that reference PC11. Has anyone found PC11? I can't find it in any of the usual places (overwatch/digest/blip.tv).

I'm not sure what constitutes a spoiler, so just to be safe...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Looks like someone is going to the FBI Academy. No other info other than that the coordinate do match up with the points on the map.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:43 pm
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zizka
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Location: Basement of the Alamo

 		 News from Germain
You may have noticed a new locked comment on the focus on films blog.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Image from Bombay pw: 217ind7

I was relatively sure this had happened, but I was not certain. Tristan went to confirm and found it to be true. I did not mention it to Sebring or to you, because, as I say, I was not certain and also was not sure of your motives - until you returned the decoded message, that is. I do not think you would have done so if you were on the wrong side of this.

We are still gathering information and do not yet know what really happened.

At least a portion of this will have to be dealt with, but there is much to consider. I'm sure I will want to meet with you to discuss issues in more detail, but it will be several days before arrangements can be made.

There is no need to reply unless you have critical information.


I've not been able to find PC 11 yet, either. Maybe it's being upped now; maybe it's hidden. I think I'll wait for a few hours before digging around too much.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:53 pm
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mortality
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 428

 		AP's (former) location and spec
Natrona County is in Wyoming, for what it's worth.

Edit: and since the Google Maps timeline is from tcalyx, that mean we can rule out the t.thorn LT page as a gamejack or an OIS decoy?

Shall we share with TCalyx that AP was left dangling in the wind?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:20 pm
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zizka
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 		perf seemed to think that he created, then signaled that he was abandoning the calyx libthing page, but I'm watching the thorn page with a little skepticism.

Can;t wait for the new files.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:35 pm
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mortality
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
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 		tpetal, et al
info sharing
Zizka, are you basing that on private correspondence with perf? I see nothing in this thread or in any public statements by calyx/petal to substantiate that statement.

I'm out for a bit. Catch up with you all later.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:42 pm
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zizka
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 		i think it may have been in an email where he mentioned it to me, but it's based (solely, I should say) on an interpretation of information in the last transcript. I'm not sure I agree with the interp, but I'm still torn as to which I believe is real or even if both aren't. I know I'll not be sending any info to either till I see more info on the profiles.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:31 pm
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mortality
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 		tcalyx
re: validity in question
Still not seeing anything that's been made available--transcript, blogpost, email or otherwise--that would indicate the LT page is bunk. I saw that petal doesn't want to communicate by email, but nothing that post-dates the move to LT that puts its validity in question. I'm curious about the reasoning behind that assessment.

I agree that we need more confirmation about which profile is valid before sharing anything else.

Since I last visited the autoreromanzo site I linked to earlier, it's been completely replaced. It used to be an English language dating site for Latinos. Now it's a clearinghouse for links to sites about novels on the delebomorofanu.info domain.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:05 pm
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zizka
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Location: Basement of the Alamo

 		i still get the same site for teh autoreromanzo link you posted. I'd like to see the other site, though.

I'll look through the transcript when I get a chance; I think I remembered what perf was talking about when he said that, but I don't think I read it the same way.
perhaps it was this:
Quote:
[10:52:38 PM] t. petal says: I was building it under an ID that had petal in the name. I don't feel comfortable with that now. I'm concerned that some of your people may have been given Green info. I'll contact you when I rebuild it.



crap. this is it:

Quote:

As I said, I don't get much REALLY secure time. But when I do I'll add to this. Can't promise that it'll be in order or even useful (my mind jumps around a lot), but who knows maybe something I know will help. I've done some stuff to make this pretty secure, but be careful. Sounds like you have some traitors in your midst.

t. calyx"


This seems to have been the message that accompanied the map. It came in our crazy "paranoid lunatic" stage a few days ago, and I missed it when I was trying to get everything posted in the open. Sorry about that. I say we still watch them for activity. No need for us to rush in and volunteer information, of course. I posted a message to calyx when I first discovered the site, but have not yet seen any sort of confirmation that it was received. I have not done so with thorn. I think that if someone had figured out that he was moving and changing his handle and figured out where he was moving to "T.Thorn" would be a much more likely guess for an impostor than "tcalyx," but my paranoid ramblings have led us astray before.

Unitl something starts moving over there, I say we wait. Maybe some new files will pop up, plus info should be forthcoming from HiaS.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:17 pm
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