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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[SPEC] Theory about what project Cloverfield is really about
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1-18-08infoandtheory
Boot

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 13
tinag222 wrote:
Except you're making the error of presuming that if it did have any religious connotations (which it does not), that it's automatically gonna be a jewish or christian religion, particularly yall's obsession with revelations, as opposed to any other one with more contextual relevance....given all the Japanese elements.

We did this already.

You might see a jesus revelations theme behind anything suspected to be religious in nature but there isn't any religion going on with slusho or 1-18, not even veiled...and there's been a pretty clear guideline on how to root it out: lateral thinking. Look at what's in front of you and just follow that. After nearly a month, not the first thing in this entire evolution has been encoded or veiled or hidden or obscured. It's ALL been in plain sight, in your face, on the table with its own glaringly simple relevance and association. At no point has it indicated any religious thing.

Why don't you see your suspicious veiled religious elements as being about Taoism or Buddhism or Shinto or Confucianism?

You've got a frame around ya on this one that's got zero evidence suggesting anything religious....with one exception you ignore in favor of needing it to be otherwise and that is the little Buddha statue on the sushi table in the trailer. If you're going with religion, go there. FIRST.

And if that hits a wall, chances are about 100% so will any other one for obvious reasons.

What is it about? It's about an American style monster that ravages NY and we get the story after the fact by way of discovered camera footage.

What kinda monster, based on what has been given? Huge, alive, organic (not a robot) and likely some sort of mutant something or another that has something to do with the slusho mystery ingredients or mining for them...with at least a contextual potential for it to have originally come from space and fallen into the sea and its disturbance was part of the "it's alive" part.

That's what we've been given. Why must it be convoluted into some religious apocolyptic thing when nothing at all points to it outside the typical kneejerk western religious mentality presuming anytime there's shit blowing up and roaring and tearing up stuff, it's bound to be some biblical thing about the end of the world?

Not the end of the world....cause there's people finding cameras after shit happens in NY...so if anything, it's end of NY's world.
'

But where does this leave us. You never discreidtted my theory, all you said is to be more open minded. Do you have any proof that this theory is not correct? Yes I will admitt, my first thought is of christianity and juhdisim(Ispelled that wrong).

Plus I'm not saying this is the end of the world, I am saying Judgement day meaning those strong enough to survive will, and those who are weak will die. So there will be survivors.

Plus lets face it probaly 80% of the world has no idea what anyother religions stand for. This would be terrible marketing. Yes I am thinking with a closed mind, but only because that is how society in general thinks. So to make money you need to think like the society. If this film has a religious theme, than it will be a popular religion.

Disprove this, because this is the best theory out there

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:09 am
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Ecks51
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AKRay wrote:
Quote:
Given that JJ has flat out said he would never use religion in his projects, that seems to completely debunk this theory.


Where exactly did he say this?


I'd really like to see that quote as well. I'd give JJ a lot more respect if he actually said, and meant, that.


tinag222 wrote:

What kinda monster, based on what has been given? Huge, alive, organic (not a robot) and likely some sort of mutant something or another that has something to do with the slusho mystery ingredients or mining for them...with at least a contextual potential for it to have originally come from space and fallen into the sea and its disturbance was part of the "it's alive" part.


You left out Monstrous, Terrifying and Furious (It's probably Fast too).

I think the Japanese references are a nod to Godzilla-style (guy in a rubber suit crushing model cities) monsters as apposed to King Kong-style (stop motion model monster attacking model cities) becuase he said King Kong was adorable, but made no such remark about Godzilla.

(FWIW Godzilla 98 doesn't count in my book. It was too small and jurassic park looking to be terrifying.)

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:17 am
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tastes like chicken
Boot

Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 50

 		Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the way theories and hypotheses work. It is up to you to prove the theory right, not up to other people to prove it wrong when you run out of evidence to back it up.

Anyway, this has been done to death. You start with the assumption that this is religious in nature and then your theory just reinforces that assumption. It's like a one-man echo chamber.

I don't think it will be those three monsters because it's meant to be an original monster. And it's meant to be a US version of an iconic monster like Godzilla, which points towards it not being based off a religious text, but entirely new.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:21 am
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Lawlbringer
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tastes like chicken wrote:
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the way theories and hypotheses work. It is up to you to prove the theory right, not up to other people to prove it wrong when you run out of evidence to back it up.

Anyway, this has been done to death. You start with the assumption that this is religious in nature and then your theory just reinforces that assumption. It's like a one-man echo chamber.

I don't think it will be those three monsters because it's meant to be an original monster. And it's meant to be a US version of an iconic monster like Godzilla, which points towards it not being based off a religious text, but entirely new.


Non-japanese homages to Godzilla really just make my mind jump to the even bigger film travesty that was, "Yonggary."

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:36 am
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tinag222
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Quote:
But where does this leave us. You never discreidtted my theory, all you said is to be more open minded. Do you have any proof that this theory is not correct? Yes I will admitt, my first thought is of christianity and juhdisim(Ispelled that wrong).


Well it would - or should - leave us with forming an opinion based on relevance to what's been presented. I wasn't out to discredit your theory - I was trying to point out two things that are obvious to most everyone else and those are 1. nothing whatsoever about what we've been presented with thus far has alluded, not even vaguely, to any religious point of view, modern or ancient and 2. it's almost mindless to me how/why it is that no matter the scenario that incorporates the massive destruction of a city/state/country/planet that it's ALWAYS this kneejerk presumption it has some connection or association to western, namely, christian, religion - as if the one (mis)interpreting the event is oblivious to the reality of the scores of other religions out there. It's always dragged kicking and screaming back into a christian biblical thing, ie judgment day - biblical reference not specifically found in other religions. Yes others have their own doomsday scenarios but have vastly different terms. That you phrased it Judgment day at all validates the above - you don't have any knowledge base that there are scores of other religions, so no matter what it is, you (generally) try to hammer it into a western - christian relgious thing.

But again, mostly 1 - nothing about any of this even remotely hints there's any religious connotations, not of any religion and especially not christianity. The only possible element that was visibly shown was Buddha, a religious figure that is clearly NOT christian or jewish...and this religious icon who is considered far more of The Man than Jesus could've ever hoped to be, is glazed over in favor of "revelations" (bible) and "judgment day" (bible) and mythos beasts (bible). I still haven't seen a soul come off with Shiva or Kali. If it's not any of the Japanese religions - then it's not relgious based one way or the other.

Instead, what we've been presented with so far has provided a base of about 90% positive it's man made - or at least one of man's typically arrogant tamperings with shit he probably shouldn't be tampering with and makes it worse...unleashes it, mutates it, catalyzes it. Because it's usually man that fancies himself "master of the universe" and inevitably discovers the hard way that NOPE.....



Quote:
Plus I'm not saying this is the end of the world, I am saying Judgement day meaning those strong enough to survive will, and those who are weak will die. So there will be survivors.


Yes but your use of Judgment Day is biblical. If you want to backstep, you'd at least maintain the relevance on a philosophical level if you just went with an organic creature with an instinct for survival like other animals in an evolutionary race of survival of the fittest, where those that hath gets, and those that hath not get eaten - in this case literally. Razz

Quote:
Plus lets face it probaly 80% of the world has no idea what anyother religions stand for.


And that brings us back to the problem. Those people would be inclined to form an association with what they know instead of cracking open the shell and discovering not only are their others out there but some were here waaaaaay before our americanized (if not bastardized) egobased religious ideas. But the bottom line is, again, that there was only ONE religious element shown in the trailer and it didn't come from the bible. And if you are to (hopefully) use factual reality evidence to support your theory (which we would hope you would), then you'd be obliged to follow the Buddha...which no christian based relgious person is gonna do cause they think they already know the score....

Quote:
This would be terrible marketing.


Agreed....only I'll add to that by suggesting that I think a good majority of people in *this* country are friggin fed up with all the religious crackpot mentality of ANY religion and would probably overlook the SOL head being chunked down main street by Monstrous long as nobody was preaching ancient mythos tied into the military complex showing up to kill it (as usual).

Quote:
Yes I am thinking with a closed mind, but only because that is how society in general thinks. So to make money you need to think like the society. If this film has a religious theme, than it will be a popular religion.


Most all the religious based flicks coming out in the last several years have bombed at the box office. I totally understand your point, but where you'd need to open your mind isn't on which religion it might be or could be, but instead recognize that there's zero evidence to suggest it is religious one way or the other, and focus instead on what we've been given - that, if you really break it down - has a totally scientific basis over a religious one: See Slusho History for all the science you can stand. Screwy science, mindya, but science nonetheless.


Quote:
Disprove this, because this is the best theory out there


Not by a long shot. It's a theory based on personal, subjective association instead of looking at the stuff we've been given...that's all I'm saying. I mean if there'd been some overt biblical sort of scene in the trailer, like running into a church or there were comments that reflected a modernized version of some biblical quote, then more power to ya on working up a religious based theory on what it's about and how it happened.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:05 pm
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1-18-08infoandtheory
Boot

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
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tinag222 wrote:
Quote:
But where does this leave us. You never discreidtted my theory, all you said is to be more open minded. Do you have any proof that this theory is not correct? Yes I will admitt, my first thought is of christianity and juhdisim(Ispelled that wrong).


Well it would - or should - leave us with forming an opinion based on relevance to what's been presented. I wasn't out to discredit your theory - I was trying to point out two things that are obvious to most everyone else and those are 1. nothing whatsoever about what we've been presented with thus far has alluded, not even vaguely, to any religious point of view, modern or ancient and 2. it's almost mindless to me how/why it is that no matter the scenario that incorporates the massive destruction of a city/state/country/planet that it's ALWAYS this kneejerk presumption it has some connection or association to western, namely, christian, religion - as if the one (mis)interpreting the event is oblivious to the reality of the scores of other religions out there. It's always dragged kicking and screaming back into a christian biblical thing, ie judgment day - biblical reference not specifically found in other religions. Yes others have their own doomsday scenarios but have vastly different terms. That you phrased it Judgment day at all validates the above - you don't have any knowledge base that there are scores of other religions, so no matter what it is, you (generally) try to hammer it into a western - christian relgious thing.

But again, mostly 1 - nothing about any of this even remotely hints there's any religious connotations, not of any religion and especially not christianity. The only possible element that was visibly shown was Buddha, a religious figure that is clearly NOT christian or jewish...and this religious icon who is considered far more of The Man than Jesus could've ever hoped to be, is glazed over in favor of "revelations" (bible) and "judgment day" (bible) and mythos beasts (bible). I still haven't seen a soul come off with Shiva or Kali. If it's not any of the Japanese religions - then it's not relgious based one way or the other.

Instead, what we've been presented with so far has provided a base of about 90% positive it's man made - or at least one of man's typically arrogant tamperings with shit he probably shouldn't be tampering with and makes it worse...unleashes it, mutates it, catalyzes it. Because it's usually man that fancies himself "master of the universe" and inevitably discovers the hard way that NOPE.....



Quote:
Plus I'm not saying this is the end of the world, I am saying Judgement day meaning those strong enough to survive will, and those who are weak will die. So there will be survivors.


Yes but your use of Judgment Day is biblical. If you want to backstep, you'd at least maintain the relevance on a philosophical level if you just went with an organic creature with an instinct for survival like other animals in an evolutionary race of survival of the fittest, where those that hath gets, and those that hath not get eaten - in this case literally. Razz

Quote:
Plus lets face it probaly 80% of the world has no idea what anyother religions stand for.


And that brings us back to the problem. Those people would be inclined to form an association with what they know instead of cracking open the shell and discovering not only are their others out there but some were here waaaaaay before our americanized (if not bastardized) egobased religious ideas. But the bottom line is, again, that there was only ONE religious element shown in the trailer and it didn't come from the bible. And if you are to (hopefully) use factual reality evidence to support your theory (which we would hope you would), then you'd be obliged to follow the Buddha...which no christian based relgious person is gonna do cause they think they already know the score....

Quote:
This would be terrible marketing.


Agreed....only I'll add to that by suggesting that I think a good majority of people in *this* country are friggin fed up with all the religious crackpot mentality of ANY religion and would probably overlook the SOL head being chunked down main street by Monstrous long as nobody was preaching ancient mythos tied into the military complex showing up to kill it (as usual).

Quote:
Yes I am thinking with a closed mind, but only because that is how society in general thinks. So to make money you need to think like the society. If this film has a religious theme, than it will be a popular religion.


Most all the religious based flicks coming out in the last several years have bombed at the box office. I totally understand your point, but where you'd need to open your mind isn't on which religion it might be or could be, but instead recognize that there's zero evidence to suggest it is religious one way or the other, and focus instead on what we've been given - that, if you really break it down - has a totally scientific basis over a religious one: See Slusho History for all the science you can stand. Screwy science, mindya, but science nonetheless.


Quote:
Disprove this, because this is the best theory out there


Not by a long shot. It's a theory based on personal, subjective association instead of looking at the stuff we've been given...that's all I'm saying. I mean if there'd been some overt biblical sort of scene in the trailer, like running into a church or there were comments that reflected a modernized version of some biblical quote, then more power to ya on working up a religious based theory on what it's about and how it happened.


wOULD YOU BE INCLINED TO SHARE YOUR THEORY

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:16 pm
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rhialto
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 		He doesn't really have to have his own theory to realize that this very VERY popular one is based on essentially nothing. Unless you think the numbers six and three mean the Apocalypse. Not sure if you were challenging him there.

My theory is just from a simple reading of the Slusho history. Just read it. It's not that complicated. Something in the ocean is up to no good. Nothing Biblical about it... yet.

Also, it's kinda funny you would claim that you and someone else came up with this theory, when it originated here weeks ago.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:12 pm
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Im_RawnBurgundy
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rhialto wrote:
He doesn't really have to have his own theory to realize that this very VERY popular one is based on essentially nothing. Unless you think the numbers six and three mean the Apocalypse. Not sure if you were challenging him there.

My theory is just from a simple reading of the Slusho history. Just read it. It's not that complicated. Something in the ocean is up to no good. Nothing Biblical about it... yet.

Also, it's kinda funny you would claim that you and someone else came up with this theory, when it originated here weeks ago.


Its really in plain letters, somthing to do with the sea. Its coming or came to life and is wreaking havoc on NY....
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:50 pm
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wolfz0rz
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1-18-08infoandtheory wrote:


wOULD YOU BE INCLINED TO SHARE YOUR THEORY


Would you be inclined to turn off your caps lock?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:21 pm
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Im_RawnBurgundy
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wolfz0rz wrote:
1-18-08infoandtheory wrote:


wOULD YOU BE INCLINED TO SHARE YOUR THEORY


Would you be inclined to turn off your caps lock?


Would you be inclined to not quote someone! HA!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:43 pm
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mannythestud
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 		Im pretty sure if JJ wants to make the most money possible he won't incorporate any religion into it, so it can appeal to all people.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:45 pm
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JimmieBJr
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 		Re: [SPEC] Theory about what project Cloverfield is really a
Is this movie a Religious Judgement day
1-18-08infoandtheory wrote:

The the third monster roar is followed by the staues head. That is Ziz, the monster of the skies.This makes sense because the Ziz could rip the head off the statue, fly, and drop it. This animal like creature is usually depicted as a bird.


Yeah, except that the SOL head wasn't dropped. It was flung or thrown - propelled, if you like. IN fact, it enters our vision on a slightly upwards trajectory - a tough thing to do if you're a bird.

Quote:

Now on the slusho homepage, the buttons show a whale- Leviathan, a horse-Beamoth, and, a bird-Ziz.
Also the history page is under water
The downloads page is in the sky
and the home page is on land


The buttons also show a frog. So far as I know (and I'm not an ace on Talmudic lore), there's no Jewish monster that equates to a frog. Jackie Mason comes kind of close, though.

The Store page is on a fashion runway. Does that make Kate Moss one of the Jewish Monster Crew?

Quote:

Way too much of a coincidence


And way too little of a theory. You basically took the elements that fit your notions and neglected to mention all the other stuff that doesn't. That's not a sound theory. That's something else.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:44 am
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JimmieBJr
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1-18-08infoandtheory wrote:

Plus I'm not saying this is the end of the world, I am saying Judgement day meaning those strong enough to survive will, and those who are weak will die. So there will be survivors.


Except that in no Christian religion nor in Judaism will you ever find anything even close to the belief that the way to make it through Judgement Day involves being "strong enough".

In fact, exactly the opposite is true.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:47 am
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Almijisti
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 		Moderators, please lock this thread. The theory was long-ago shown to be without basis, and now (some) others have taken the opportunity to not merely counter it, but make banal statements bashing all of western civilization and its great religions.

This is not the place for a debate about culture; it's a goddamn movie.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:58 am
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elvis cocho
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 		kudos
Almijisti wrote:
Moderators, please lock this thread. The theory was long-ago shown to be without basis, and now (some) others have taken the opportunity to not merely counter it, but make banal statements bashing all of western civilization and its great religions.

This is not the place for a debate about culture; it's a goddamn movie.


kudos+2 to you sir as mentioned its a movie about a monster not one for political debate Locky! Locky!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:34 pm
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