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[xnbomb]

[Rekidk]

Re: History

[danteIL]

Lots of good thoughts floating around.. I just want to pick up on a couple of things in SpaceBass' recent explication of the importance of History:

[SpaceBass]

[Mikeyj]

Re: History

[FLmutant]

[rose]

I think, when pronounced correctly, "stochastic" has a nice ring to it.

I need to go back a bit to try to follow the conversation.

Authorship requires creation of story assets from both the Architect (PMs in the case of ARGs) and the Audience (players, in the case of ARGs).

So in the case of, say, a Harry Potter book - the story doesn't require the input of an audience to create the story, even though fans have created all sorts of websites, wikis, histories, timelines, etc. The fans don't affect the creation of the story. So that would make Authorship a No, not chaotic fiction. Also, no ruleset ( See Space's post above:

[danteIL]

[FLmutant]

[imbri]

Despite the potential derail of the stochastic discussion, I want to jump back a few pages and look at the overall definition as (re)defined by SpaceBass with from the perspective of music performance. Those of you that have heard my "Grateful Dead as ARG" thoughts before won't find much new here, but I want to see how it fits in the chaotic fiction model. In part to see how and where it breaks - on any front.

Much of what I'm talking about is true for any live band performance, but I do think that there's a difference between the highly produced & choreographed pop and rock shows and those that allow for more improvisational play such as you see in with various jazz and "jam band" artists. As I'm most familiar with the Grateful Dead, I'll be using them as an example.

Many of my earlier thoughts resolved around the community experience and the history that they created and, really, I don't know that should be discounted, though admit that it's not highly relevant as they similarities that I see are likely found in many collaborative communities and is more specific to a persistent ARG community (uf) than an individual ARG community. But, going to a Dead show was an experience. People would arrive at the venue hours before the concert was set to start and wander through the parking lot (exploring the universe). Vendors would be set up where you could buy and trade goods from food to t-shirts to more advanced crafts and, yes, drugs (forums, guides, trails, chats). Impromptu groups would form around play - sports, music playing & trading, games (chat, diversions, spoof sites). It was, in every sense of the word, a thriving community and a nomadic city that traveled from venue to venue (unfiction, arg to arg). There have been college courses that have studied the sociology and anthropology of this community.

As with any society, there is a history. With the Dead, there's some written history, a lot of recorded history, and a near infinate amount of oral history, most of which revolves around the various shows. Through this oral history, some songs become legendary - Dark Star, in particular. This history was further built by the practice of tape trading.

We're all familiar with the debate of free music on the internet, but for deadheads, this practice has been ubiquitious for years. Some shows (Barton Hall, 1977) were so widely traded that many deadheads know those shows better than any produced album and each taped show has it's quirks (a guy woowooing during casey jones) that has become so familiar that when you hear a soundboard or cleaned up version of the performance it's "just not right".

For a long time, I thought of the Grateful Dead as the longest running "ARG", but I wonder if each show would be considered some form of CF in its own right.

Authorship: Creation of the experience as the responsibility of both the Architects and Audience.

Absolutely. I would also add in Atmosphere (frequent mentions of things such as rain and heat, whether a show was inside or out). The Architects (musicians and all those that go into putting the show together, in this case) build the set, they choose the songs to play, the choose the riffs to go off on. The Audience, however, has a role. When listening to recordings, you can hear the power of the audience driving the musicians. Their reactions are often solicited and, even, expected by the band. At Dead shows, it was customary to stand during some songs and sit during others and sing during others.

The audience roles weren't just relegated by the band and went beyond just listening and dancing. People would take their own initiative and do their own things to help build and record the story for others - wandering through the corridors of the venue, you'd find "spinners" (dancers caught in a trance like state spinning very rapidly that added to the atmosphere for those that weren't spinning) and the volunteer wharf rats who would help people who were having a bad drug experience and supporting those that did not choose to do drugs. In the venue, you'd find those taping the show and creating the recorded history from both the official (soundboard) perspective and the audience one.

Ruleset: A framework for metaconversation has been created by the Architects which allows the Audience to interact/affect the story/universe.

I hit on this a bit with the custom of sitting and standing during certain songs and the audience participation. However it does go beyond that. From the band teasing songs (especially Darkstar, mentioned previously) to the way in which the venue was set up and the band played - creating things like "the phil zone". Furthermore, because of the loose and improvizational nature of the performance, the band was able to take in audience feedback and adjust their performance to suit it.

Coherence: Is there a plot?

Here is a point where I struggle. There is no missing person or cute brunette that needs your help. However, the setlists from all of the shows follow a pattern. There are songs that would occur in the first set or the last. Some songs were used to lead into others. "Space" and "Drums" are improvisational pieces that would occur at specific points during the show to help maximize the impact of the show and, really, the overall story of the show. The common plot elements are all there from the introduction to the climax to the conclusion. So, I'm not sure that there is a "story" but there is definitely a "plot"

History: Is there a history of the experience?

Yes. There is an extensive history of the band's performances are available in several forms - from the official soundboard recordings to the audience recordings to a blend of the two. (interested in downloading a show free & legal? Archive.org is your friend) Beyond that, there are resources, such as DeadBase that provide detailed information about each show - from venues to set lists. Additionally, the history of the shows are recorded in other forms. From reviews to songs about the show.

So, despite a lack of "fiction", I see live musical performances by bands that specialization in improvisational play as fitting the CF model. I'm not sure that it should, though I wouldn't say that it shouldn't.

[FLmutant]

[imbri]

[FLmutant]

[imbri]

[FLmutant]