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FLmutant
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Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 244
Location: Orlando, FL
thebruce wrote:
My point is, by its very nature ARGs really have no rules... the genre's attempt is to offer an interactive storytelling experience that blurs the line between reality and fiction. So the challenge, for PMs and players (newbies and experienced alike, including player resource websites such as UF and ARGN) is to embrace change - not necessaily proactively, since ultimately it's the PMs that set the pace (by listening to players and ultimately offering what they feel is an acceptable balance for their ARG between player experience, scope, and PM requirements) - but productively and open-mindedly.


Totally agree: I'd throw an extra wrinkle on top. UF is actually very good at embracing change, but primarily because of that "people want an experience like the one that made them enjoy ARGing in the first place." Successful change ends up becoming part of tastes of the new fans joining UF.

What we need to work better at is WANTING people to break our implicit rules: that's the "punk rock" aspect that every thriving art has. One group of rebels becomes the status quo against which you WANT someone else to rebel.

thebruce wrote:
3) Proposed PM news site - player tool encouraging PM content; a site set up by the community to provide a resource where PMs have control over their news and trailheads. Details are vague as it's being discussed - what's the scope? Real world news mixed with virtual ARG news? Assets with histories usable by any PM? persistent outside the site, or only what's canon from within the site? Rulesets? Content flexibility? Demographics? -- A midway point between player tools (public, open to all) and PM tools (generally private resources for ARG development).


This is a tough one. I try to imagine who would read that new site on a regular basis ... and are those people who wouldn't have found a rabbit hole left somewhere else?

Can I be completely gauche and just raise a question?

It seems the above news site implies an environment that contains both "official" information from PMs and the chatter of fans. There's a reason why UF decided it wasn't good to have both of those things happen here. So is this idea BECAUSE there is that limitation? Does this idea stumble into the problem that made UF create those rules in the first place?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:49 am
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 		tinag222
Try it this way...

We're all familiar with ARGN as a reource or news site from a meta sense. We go there to find games they're telling us. But ARGN specifically is about ARG as a genre, so they've got news reports or articles on this subject. SO if ARGN posted an article about the kidnapping of Rothschild's nephew, everybody is going to know that's a RH/TH.

ARGN couldn't open up an option for "other news" because they're not about news in general.

The news site being suggested would be fully in game. It belongs to everyone involved in args. It can be centrally run by a few people to keep it maintained, organized and moderated, but for the most part they're not directly involved in the playerbase - in the same function as whoever runs UF forums and their moderators.

But In Game any PM can employ the existence of this newspaper, as it would be the official NYT of the argiverse. It's not presented in the same respect as ARGN, but from inside any given game. As in game players - they would be the ones reading the papers. Why? Because these papers, seeded with "real time news" (which is the fluff or filler) items are among the various in game news reports or articles supplied by various PMs for their respective games.

A template could be drawn up and made available OOG/Meta for PMs to use to come up with consistently presented stories or articles, press releases and they'd just fill in their own information and submit it to the paper/news source. The paper could reasonably work with low cost advertising for PMs...say this game is about the corrupt entity. As a rabbit hole the PM posts an ad about the company's new product and whatever hook goes with it. To the general audience, it's just another ad for some company. But given that this audience knows this is always an IG paper, they'd be more likely to consider the ad suspect and find the RH faster.

As various PMs submit their information, it's collected and maintained. After X amount of time, it's archived. IG ads have a specific shelf life and are removed for new content. But all stories look as legitimate as any real news story provided as filler. This PM's game is about a corrupt politician and the clues hidden in the content of the article, or the "contact" name of the reporter publishing the story. Putting this in the same section as Tom Delay Indicted or Bush Tells Another One or Senator From Omaha Caught With Hooker along with the usual smaller political expose's fits in. It's up to the player to work out the RH from actual news. Even more intriguing is that the real article can be reprinted with its source link, but on the news site a little extra paragraph added about possible connection to such and such entity...let it go at that. It then leads into some game, and isn't related to the real news at all.


In the Entertainment section or the Lifestyles section can be filler recipes and fashion advice, horoscopes all that crap...and of course the fun puzzles....the solution of which leads to someone's game.

With this kind of in game source, we'd ultimately come to use this for launches, but since all material is archived for awhile, we also have a database of records, which can also be "planted" in back archives on any given character to appear backdated and always there. If you're researching information on a suspect in an arson, you'd go check the archives of the paper for related stuff, finding character info and background. From this source, it could keep UF discussing games OOG, and ARGN can always just share the news same as usual.

It's a fake paper but yeah, we know that in an OOG sense. We agree and accept it as "the" main news source in argland. Being able to subscribe to it would be an additional bonus for everyone looking for a game. As for who runs it, I don't know. Whoever finds it a good idea and wants to be that guy or that team - focused exclusively on running it. The individual PMs are in control entirely over their own content, they submit it, the paper publishes it and that's the end of it. The paper doesn't create the content, the PMs do and submit it in whatever form they need it to be.


That may not be what others were thinking, but that's what *I* had in mind when I suggested the in world news source.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:07 am
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AngriBuddhist
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Joined: 04 Aug 2004
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 		You have completely nailed it. Even so, drawing enough community support to be considered the NYT of argiverse would be challenging.

I have been thinking about "archives" as well. To achieve this in a believable way you would have to seed the front page (between the RSS feeds) with current "fake" stories and the Archive with backdated "fake" stories that have no relation to any ARG. If there were enough stories this could allow "research" into an event that took place in the past.

Their is still the problem of-

konamouse wrote:
The key here is control of access for posting, and a player recognized method to distinguish IG from gamejack (since that is becoming more persuasive as the genre has expanded). So you really have to come back to PM controlled resources that can provide direct (or indirect) links to the legitimate sites (any new found site linking back to the original is not necessarily proof of co-existence unless the original IG site publically acknowledges it or there is a unique tag/identifier - like creation prior to game start noted in the Whois).


This is a Sacred Principle. The idea of breaking it will turn many off to using it. Immense popularity and community support could put the uneasiness to rest but how do you achieve that from the word "go"?

I saw another thread, awhile back, where rekidk was responding to someone's idea of an in-game news site. I think I saw it somewhere else as well. I talked to a PM about it and he said that he had thought of how useful it could have been to him years ago. It's been an idea for awhile yet no one has done it.

I've spent more time than I had so...

What are the major problems that would have to be faced with realizing the news site that tinag222 describes?

1.) Manpower- Admins, Mods (??), Journalists (create fake stories to achieve fleshed out Archives)

2.) Player Support- Why would PMs use this site if there were no one using it? How do you draw their attention?

3.) PM Support- What problems would have to be addressed to put their unease to rest? Would enough of them utilize this site to interest players to use it?

4.) Other??

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:33 am
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 		tinag222
Yay!!! I must be getting it then finally!

I don't think there would be the control issue that you mention if the news site was done as I tried to describe above. Here's the difference.

Take the NYT in real life. Slew of reporters doing their articles for submission, the editor and co decide which stories to run, and then edit the stories to (has to be done) remove all the factual stuff and just focus on somebody's thong from rhab)...point being the public has no control over the content being published...and frankly, neither to the reporters.

If the newspaper/site is considered "ours" players and PMs alike, then that eliminates the above "censorship" aspect. The paper owners aren't considered PMs or even a PM issue. They simply provide a "media" outlet for whatever stories get submitted to them. They only real manner they play is just that they exist as the main source for news for argiverse. It's not mandatory anyone or everyone uses it every game. One PM can run a game and only mention it as something that exists. Mr. X reads NYT in his spare time. Another PM could plant articles there and one of his characters can inject the clue to look there by little more than mentioning the newspaper as an irrelevant aside. The fight scene erupts and the little old lady in the corner swatted a bad guy with her rolled up NYT. Or another PM may have no need for a news source in his game, his characters do not have any relevance to a news site.

The PMs decide if they want or need the use of the site, and if so, they create their content, submit it to the site, the ones who run it just add the info to the site wherever it needs to go, and on that level it's not treated like a real newspaper. Just the finished product and the front of it looks like a legit online newspaper site. I suggested adding real stories as filler because when things are slow, there's more filler there and it doesn't look like an empty abandoned half done website. People would actually have to keep up and check it and browse through it to find the little planter holes and trails...which from the OOG sense is why we'd be there at all.

Another PM can deliberately make use of the paper and direct players there for researching some event that happened, or some character person they're dealing with, but every bit of the information on this issue is supplied directly by the PM to the paper for addition to whichever section it should go, whether it's archived or not. That means that one PMs info will inevitably end up amid info supplied by other PMs regarding other games, so the archive of information accumulates itself...it's still up to the player to find the *correct* archived info, or the right article (i.e. which article or info goes with the game he's playing and which goes to some other one going on he's not playing).

It's the same motivation for reading papers at all....I know there's sports, but I could care less about that. I read my interests and disregard the other stuff. The chief difference is that in the arg paper/news, every PM has a greater potential for any of his info found by a player playing one game to also get interested in his by the content he's added. This rarely happens with real papers. A sports fan isn't likely to get lured in by the fashion section reports.

Every PM is going to have his stuff in there alongside any other one's stuff, and all are in there amid the filler that is real stuff. And the whole thing can be set up as a totally legit looking site - with ads from "sponsors" or classifieds or a craig's list sort of thing built in where in game players can communicate with characters if they need it, where there are the standard news sections....but the paper itself doesn't control anything but maintaining the site.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:31 am
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 		tinag222
Quote:
I saw another thread, awhile back, where rekidk was responding to someone's idea of an in-game news site. I think I saw it somewhere else as well. I talked to a PM about it and he said that he had thought of how useful it could have been to him years ago. It's been an idea for awhile yet no one has done it.


Then I don't feel so isolated with the idea. Encouraging. And for the record, if we can get one established well enough, other people can create their own news sites...for more resources.



Quote:
1.) Manpower- Admins, Mods (??), Journalists (create fake stories to achieve fleshed out Archives)


No need. PMs create their own stories. I'd be insanely glad to create this news site. I just don't have the experience with heavy coding or databases or all that. It would boil down to me sitting at the computer 24/7 manually posting the stories in the paper - which actually wouldn't be bad. I'm on the damn thing 24-7 anyway! Whoever runs it could reasonably charge a SMALL fee, like 5-10bucks to place ads or a buck per piece of content to help with the cost of running the site alone, it could even be open to argers to "work" for the paper...and provide their contact info for PMs who need to get a little airtime for their stories or plots....contact JoeBlow reporter to do a write up about the arson at the soap plant, etc.

With the exception of the format and sections for the news site, and the filler articles, everything else is supplied by the PMs - so they don't have to create a newspaper, or a library or an archive, so they don't have to create whole websites with background information, so they don't have to hope a site gets found, so they don't have to make the blogger who mentions it in passing having seen it or heard about it. If they need an on going back history on a character who's made a name for himself or a back history on some event to legitimize using it, he creates that information, submits it to the paper and requests, as the PM, that this should be in the archive in the section for X date, and however they'd do that making the paper searchable to return this information...along with any other stuff that uses similar or related strings.

Quote:
2.) Player Support- Why would PMs use this site if there were no one using it? How do you draw their attention?


Treat it like an actual paper. At no point would this paper be referred to as having anything to do with args. It's part of the reality the characters don't know they're characters. The paper doesn't know it's fake. Only the flesh and bone people running it for the PMs to provide their content, and the players using it to find that content and further the game. One PM might never use it...but others would find it useful. It also spares PMs from having to cough up lots more in buying google ads for high placement. The paper site is published online, in news keys, etc. and anybody, argers or surfers, can find it and get legit news and none the wiser, unless of course, they happen to notice that block ad in the sidebar with the strange little symbol on it for the new country club up in Stepford...or until they read a little article about some robot that's been implicated in a string of bank robberies on the east coast...and experience that grand WTF moment TINAG.

The ones who run it don't edit any content. Their only job is maintaining it and sorting/organizing content where PMs request it needs to appear and when, for how long, etc.


Quote:
3.) PM Support- What problems would have to be addressed to put their unease to rest? Would enough of them utilize this site to interest players to use it?


Can't say from a full PM standpoint but using the above model, just someone to run the thing at all and get it online in a timely fashion. To get players on it, create an ad for the paper itself and run it on ARGN and/or UF up in the box up there. PMs can easily direct their players to it.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:02 am
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Agent Lex
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 		The biggest problem I can see with this resource is gamejacking. Say I'm running this IG NYT, and someone comes up to me and says "I'm PMing this game, can you put this news story in for me?" - what's to say they're actually the PM, and not a gamejacker? Especially in games that use a known mythos (eg Eldritch Errors, or further back Metacortechs), the potential for gamejack while the PMs are behind the curtain is there.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:07 am
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 		tinag222
The PM supplies the information and would already have the home court advantage with the news site admins. If it comes from some new source a quick double check with the PM clears it up. If it's game jack, it doesn't get posted. PMs can use special behind the scenes "invoice numbers" to mark their content, in cases more than one PM submits information to the site. They would all know the number/code. It's never revealed anywhere except in the exchange with the admin.

As with all things, some would likely get through, but avid argers on the ball and dissecting stuff like pit bulls on a steak would expose it before it went anywhere. I've watched that happen within 5 minutes of a site being interjected over on cloverfield....it's ripped to shreds and swatted to the side in mind boggling speed.

Sure it'll happen but given the outcome, only the really stupid would think they'd get away with it for long....and then on top of it, soon as it's been exposed, it's basically like being shunned and blackballed and picked last for kickball.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:18 am
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thebruce
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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 		still the major problem is lack of full control. I can guarantee you that it wouldn't be a tool accepted across the board, thus it wouldn't 'expand' the genre as much as any other form of player tool; it might add a certain 'style' of ARG, or become a label in and of itself (an arg might be associated with the site, for example); but there will always be PMs who want to retain full control over all assets, history, future, plot, in-game resources...

That said, IF it can come to fruition, then I do think it can definitely play a role in adding to the variety of tools available to PMs, and might become a site similar to IU, but rather than a forum, it's a news reporting site. It would likely become a favourite of grassroots PMs, or PMs who might consider a way to integrate it without giving up that control... it's a great idea, and I don't want to come across as seeming like it's a futile plan - but I think the scope of its influence is a little optimistic.

I still see it as a sort of meta-arg. It's consistently referred to as in-game, but in-game across multiple ARGs; so to any one ARG, it contains OOG elements, or at least unimportant elements that play no role in the ARG. So to any particularly ARG, it's not entirely OOG, and it's not truly in-game. It still seems to be a sort of persistent ARG world that they can be a part of.


And the thought of 'adjusting' real-world news articles, even AP press releases, may usher in some hefty legal issues. I'd be extremely careful about that.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:08 am
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AngriBuddhist
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Joined: 04 Aug 2004
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thebruce wrote:
...I don't want to come across as seeming like it's a futile plan - but I think the scope of its influence is a little optimistic.

Actually, I think, if adopted, it's major (read: super secret) function would be to get PMs (grassroots or not) to begin considering the idea of using in-game sites that they do not directly control as resources.

I really don't think that any of the ideas we've discussed has huge potential for wide spread adoption. At this point, I don't see that "killer-app" either. It's the "layer" as a whole that I think has potential.

Quote:
And the thought of 'adjusting' real-world news articles, even AP press releases, may usher in some hefty legal issues. I'd be extremely careful about that.


No doubt. There would be no alterations. AP, Reuters, etc., all have strict guidelines that even cover rss feeds.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:25 am
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Star Spider
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 		Hope I am not to late to add my two cents!!!
Hi there everyone (if you are all still around that is!),

I was just perusing this post and I thought it to be very interesting - I am a little late in my reply but I thought it better to make it none the less.

Buddhist - I totally agree that I would like to see more in-game access to information and I can totally see what you are getting at here. I love the idea of an in-game paper - which would be sort of the in-game version of these forums. These forums (as perfect and wonderful as they are) do tend to yank back the curtain and expose the inner workings (and there is nothing wrong with that as that is the point now isn't it?) However it would be cool to see a place where one can go to get in-game news - in-game and to mix it with reality would solidify the TINAG aspect of it all.

So the question in my mind becomes: Is it better to use an in-game site with echos of reality or a real site with echos of in-game? Something like the newspaper as it has been suggested would define the former and something like Craigslist, the latter. Now I believe there are pros and cons for both and I have been thinking about it from a player/marketing perspective.

Something like Craigslist would draw real world people and players alike - with different purposes but all in one place non-the-less. If a player comes to Craigslist looking for a TV and finds a rabbithole they are for sure more likely to recognize it for what it is and follow the trail. However if a 'real worlder' were to stumble upon the post there is no telling what could happen - they could ignore it or (hopefully) they could interact with it and you could find yourself with a whole new player that you might never have reached.

Now with the newspaper this would be a little more difficult - first you would have to decide what exactly you are trying to accomplish. It is all fair and good to decide to create a new tool for PM's to interact with their players - but what about the draw for new potentials? In order to draw people to the site without revealing that it is an ARG site you would have to establish it's reputation in the 'real world'. Do you want to create a newspaper? This is a whole new effort on top of the underlaying current which is a second effort that is just as grand. So what about this paper is going to make people want to view it? You come to a place where you not only have to market the 'real' paper and on the second level you have to market the ARG paper. Two completely large projects interwoven. But as an aspiring PM who is looking to engage the real world and broaden the reach of my game without a really good hook for the 'real paper' aspect to draw 'real world people' then I might as well go and drop my RH onto Craigslist.

Obviously resources and dedicated people are needed to uphold both sides of the paper. And as a PM to me the whole thing would be useless unless it was completely effective on both sides. But once again I can totally see where the idea could go and it could be brilliant if it were excecuted flawlessly and had a broad reach in both 'reality' and 'alternate reality'.

Secondly I heard talk of different resources such as the lawyer and the university. Once again really cool ideas. I love the in-game aspect and the community appeal.

The thing that came to mind when I was reading about these things was Second Life. Essentially this is what you would have to be creating. A virtual projection of an Alternate Reality that is not quite as immersive as Second Life but lingers in between complete fantasy and complete reality. I do not think that if there was a lawyer and a university that it would be prudent to stop there. If you are going to create these in-game resources and make them effective the universe would have to be expanded. A doctor would have to be provided to testify in the lawyers cases - a psychologist - a private investigator... and it would expand from there - they would all come from the university but need their own established spaces in this 'new reality'. So what is being discussed becomes and huge endevour. A world functioning within a world maintained by various other worlds.

In this model the problem of game crossover becomes both apparent and obsolete. If this ARGworld that you are creating is a full scale model of our reality then you will always find the same problems as you will find in the 'real world' you will have piracy and game theft and crossing themes and all of that stuff that PM's work to avoid - but just as they work against it in the real world so would they have to in the ARGworld. So once you follow the thought to it's fullest extension you merely have an ARG copy of the world and then it begs the question - wouldn't it just be easier to do it in real life? Creating the individual pieces for a single game is much less taxing than creating a whole new universe and surprisingly much less fraught with issues as the control is in the PM's hands.

This is not to say I don't think the idea is very interesting the only issue I see is that following it to it's logical path of expansion flips it right back in on itself and it kind of cancels itself out.

But some really cool ideas I think are worth exploring more in depth to be sure!

Keep those wheels turning!

Sincerely,

Star

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:22 pm
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Karensa
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 		REfresher...
it's been awhile but BUMP
I was reading over this again and saw better that what I was attempting to convey wasn't as clear as I'd intended. After a long lapse in this discussion that hopefully isn't dead, I would like to at least clarify what I was pointing to, in the hope that players and pms can see the potential usefulness of it.

This time around, I will use a better illustration: YOU TUBE.

Now, we all know in an OOG sense that YT is not at all whatsoever a dedicated viral ARG site, but we all know that YT is a useful tool to both players and pms as a tool to promote/launch/play/interact inside the ARGiverse. YT, barring liability issues, does not at all decide the content of the spcific videos placed there by the videographers. Nor does YT indicate as an overseer what is a game, an arg, bullshit, silly, fanvids or anything else. All YT does is provide an open resource library FOR videogaphers to upload and share their own creations. Period.

And while YT has been used countless times in ARGs, we all know it's not specifically an ARG sort of site.

Do PMs use YT in their games? You bet. Do players of ARGs scour YT for ARG games? You bet. Do people use this media for games? You bet.

Do PMs have any real issue about "not having full control"? Nope...because the way YT is set up, they do have as full control as they'd require. They aren't "not" using YT on the grounds they aren't being given full power and control over what other videos and comments and topics are being placed there - it's a non issue. Can game jacking happen via YT? You bet.

Also, people who have never heard of ARGs have inevitably stumbled over an In Game video, considered it "real" and have been intrigued or curious, and ended up drawn into the game itself after having kept an eye on the various comments left by both arg players, arg characters, non players and trolls. So is it useful to draw in or widen the audience and introduce ARG to more people? You bet. All those issues raised in the posts on this thread are readily solved or answered/addressed using the YT model.

There were scores of people who saw the Cloverfield trailer at Transformers and didn't have any idea about 'arg' or game or even viral marketing...but that also happened to see the trailer on YT early on, reading the comments from various parties involved in args and not, and who were absolutely sucked into the momentum of Cloverfield.


Now, the newspaper I was attempting to describe would be a good model of YT, in that the people who would run the paper itself function basically the way whoever runs YT operates it - they just open a resource for people to use...only instead of specific videos, the content would be In Game (fictional) news stories, or other newspaperesque content, and even with a video section. The difference is this paper is completely fictional.

Adding "real time" news stories or items is suggested as filler only and has zero actual connection to the function of this paper. We all know in an OOG sense that neither pm nor player would ever seriously use this ARG paper to find out what's going on in Iraq, or what color thong Paris is wearing, or why Britney is going to prison. Any of those sorts of stories would just be filler to give it an overall sense of legitimacy as a 'news' site. I also wasn't suggesting 'reprinting' stories, but like it was suggested, use RSS or something to have a segment of content be actual news items.

The whole news site could be set up in a manner similar to YT - whereas my original illustration was that the PMs in an OOG sense submitted their content to the people running the news site, and those people placed the content where it needed to go...but using YT as the model, PMs could just as easily create an account, be given a specific invoice number or passkey or whatever, they upload their content and set the categories it would go in automatically - like "archives" or "sports" or "music" or "entertainment" or "politics" or however they'd be set up. This is out of my league here but it's feasible and PMs still have full control over their own content. The PM info would not appear on the content in an IG sense, just the behind the scenes sense when dealing with the admin of their account with the news site.

The face of this news site is pure fiction in and of itself - players of args would become acquainted with this newspaper as In Game - any PM or player character could 'reference' it, either in a cryptic comment, or outright, the news site owners could place an advertisement that looks realistic, for the paper, on UF, or ARGN, and we'd all understand it as an IG tool. The content is PM/player created. The admin of the site has no influence over any of that and PMs wouldn't be anymore worried about full control over every aspect than they are now using YT because YT doesn't tell them what to put in videos or where the videos go, or whether it's true or a load of insane nonsense.


As for general public stumbling over the site online at any point, on its face it'd look like any other indy paper, they'd still see the AP wire headlines or sports scores or whatever but wouldn't immediately catch on that that's just filler and no real significance. It would be the potential player, JQ Public, happening to see an ad in a sidebar for a new robotic device, or browsing a fictional "Carl's List" similar in function to Craigslist, or reading a headline story about the big fire in Alabama at the Human Cloning Lab - which would pull that WTF? moment right to the surface. Still thinking this is another news story they'd probably go search on it, knowing for certain - they think - that human cloning labs are illegal, how is this happening...and in the search end up on a website about the lab...and down the hole they go.

Other people will disregard it and X out, never finding anything - but that happens anyway as it all stands - there are plenty of people out there who don't care and have no interest in puzzles or curious websites and aren't going to be inspired to dig into it regardless.

But a PM providing a game about the people from the future can, if he chooses, in the same context he'd choose or not choose to make use of YT, to have a character talking about this artcile in the "Times" (catchy name), and players would just recognize the paper In Game and go there to find more information. They don't ALL have to use it for every game...many won't. Just like there are many players of ARGs who won't be bothered watching YT videos, let alone hacking into them for encoded content. It's there for those who find it useful, the PMs control their own content, categorized and dated accordingly, they don't run the fictional news site, they just use it.

PMs aren't going to be put off that it's not "their" paper for "their" game or that there is other content for other games unrelated - anymore than they pitch a fit they can't own YT and bump off other videos posted by other PMs for other games.

In an OOG sense, when someone asks "so where can I find a game just starting" they can be directed to the sources on UF, or ARGN in an OOG sense, AND ALSO be directed to check out "Hudson Times" as an arbitrary example...what is that? It's a newspaper...there's all sorts of strange things going on (hint hint)...or flat out: it's an in game newspaper where you can find games being launched IN GAME, or more information IN GAME about some such character, or check out the Real Estate section (hint hint) if you're looking to get involved with deaddrops in your area...


Adding again to the above is the potential for the deaddrop agency. I'm on the verge of attempting this one myself just because there is a need for it...but it should be better served by someone with more experience than I have...the same fictional front that looks realistic to the average surfer stumbling over it, but if they read a little they will see something off or curious about it and dig...others never will. It's obviously not for those ones Wink The site is a front operation for a deaddrop service or facilitator. It too could be infused into the fictional ARG paper, as a fictional service, like a real estate agency, where at face value it looks like a resource for finding realtors in any given part of the country. Argiverse the Agency is a covert spy operation facilitating dead drop agents. OOGwise, we all know it's for players interested in providing this service for PMs who need to get content out of state or move it, etc.

Eventually, just as it happened with YT, the players recognize the paper as an IG resource in the same manner they comment on YT videos in game with characters, and nobody is all fronted that YT has real videos on there too, or that "hey this isn't real!" - we all accept a YT video as in game when it's been confirmed and we don't push open the curtain to bitch out the videographer he put up a bogus video. We know he did, it's a game, we accept that reasonably.

The "times" would just be always acknowledged as in game at all times, and except for the filler that gives it its mainstream media feel, we all know the rest of the content is bogus because it's part of someone's game...giving us all a common IN GAME hub to find new games, research active games, read archives of characters (as 'real'), post comments on videos, and even have actual ARG players develop characters in the same fashion as the "players wanted" section.

Only it's characters...i.e. I could develop a role play character (or a couple), being a private investigator with a drinking problem or some such thing. I could, if there was a category in UF for it, provide my stats AS THE CHARACTER, in game...fictional name and all. The listing would be meta obviously, but PMs who need this or that character type might find it useful and more developed to bring this person on board to help out their games.

There can always be spawned more than one paper - same as there is more than one video hosting service that provides the same thing, just more option.

Just tossing it out there. I know it was longer than necessary but it really is a good topic and I do hope somebody out there will see the value in it and make some investment in bringing it to life.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:05 pm
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vilate
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Joined: 03 Dec 2007
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 		I'm glad I finally saw this thread. I've actually thought about this sort of thing, myself. It would be extremely interesting and although I think there would need to be more checks and balances that YT in order to make it cohesive, I agree that the basic idea would be the same.

A "newspaper" would need to have some organization to it in order to actually make sense. While YT is great for launches, etc., a paper would have "news" and I don't think every PM out there would need to or should be allowed to post random news articles. It would make it way too chaotic and hard to follow.

And just to throw it out there, I'd be more than willing to organize such a venture if others were able to commit time and effort into the newspaper/website. It's definitely not a one-person job.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:36 pm
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vpisteve
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 		How about Websites that PMs wish didn't exist. Smile

#1 on my list: http://www.domaintools.com/

Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:37 pm
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thebruce
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 		Ok, that's a little clearer, and sounds like something I could get excited about. Basically, like with Youtube, it would be by its nature as unsecure as Myspace, for instance, where PMs can create accounts and profile and whatnot, but as players, we'd have to take what we find there with a grain of salt, unless linked from a trusted in-game source. In which case, the "Youpaper" (Razz) could become both a hosting service for news article style content (think embedding objects in sites just like youtube), as well as a readable source of info (as per youtube's various video list views, but in newspaper style).

Basically, it's youtube, but with "articles" instead of videos. PMs would use it as they would Myspace or Youtube - obviously huge potential for gamejacks and no inherent verification of legitimate content, but it's a frame of mind already employed by players when youtube or myspace come into play.

In a sense, it could ultimately become a creative fiction type resource, where really there's no telling what's part of a bigger picture, or independently written articles by non-PMs, or (as it seems you'reimplying) real world articles. Basically a jumble of news articles, fictional (both independent, and part of ARGs) and real.

Another example that comes to mind is The Onion, only this wouldn't be purely humorous (though it could include humorous fake news stories).

Is this more along the lines of what you're explaining?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:08 pm
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Karensa
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 		woot!
Yay! I did better finally!

Yep that is the gist of it. YouTube but with news and related items. You know, there could even be an established collaborative argbrary - it too would be completely in game, but could be seeded, by PMs and player characters, with all sorts of archival data per games out there. It would be treated the same as the newpaper, accepted as in game, and if there is a need for backstory information that might cut down on additional characters delivering that info to players, the PMs could use the library to drop whole histories in an archive section, from published works, trademark or patent forms (fake ones for fake inventions, etc), geneology or historical section for info on surnames (to get more info on any given character) etc. And while I'm here, it could definitely be useful as a much more entertaining "use the search!!!" instruction. Whereas on the forum here there are a zillion places where the info is MENTIONED but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is useful information being delivered. A player interested in this or that element of a game he's playing can do reSEARCH in the library and the hits will always be information useful - he will get the content itself and not 15 pages of people asking wtf this is about or kicking it around. He's getting the in game information right off the mark.

I think more people would be willing to visit the Library if it was seeded like the paper, and do the legwork pulling leads together and THEN coming to UF to discuss it oog with a better understanding of the content.

Again, when an OOG potential player asks about finding new games or when any player needs to investigate leads, etc. they can also be directed to the library. True, they would find any number of unrelated items, but this is true in real life when we go to a library for research anyway....I might be looking up info on when the first holographic vehicles were invented, and come across interesting (or not relevant) information about Jake Redblood Pirate assassin. I'm still playing the holograph game but hey, maybe something about the pirate catches my eye too and I take some time to check out that trail - as any item in there is obviously part of someone's game, many games at once, and get involved in several games.

Also, there would be more info than just what I am playing, so it would happen that I'm reaearching a particular individual (character) and stumble across, in another section, an article or application even about a politician...at first glance it wouldn't appear related save but a curious key word (holodeck) that makes me dig deeper and start putting pieces together. I'd be getting in game data and not a result string on just how many places in this forum "cloverfield" is mentioned. It's mentioned a gazillion times but nobody has any idea even after the movie what the monster actually is! The library, for example, could've been seeded by pms with biological research data on Case#456902Rage, providing a useful backstory option for the origin of the monster - provided players learning what the monster is would've been a directive.

The usefulness of it for a newbie standpoint is that it is designed as an in game vehicle for people to get involved their own way, and then seek out UF for the teamwork, or asking questions about leads, etc. such and such story in the library hall of records not only provides more development for the pm but can still serve easily as a pathway or trail into the hole...

New players and potential players can be easily directed to the paper or library or both, in an in game sense even before the player realizes he's involved in any game...but the array of different articles, stories, histories, etc. would provide a lot of great, entertaining, intriguing reading and be a smooth transition to the OOG discussion. When someone shows up asking the 64 grand question, we'd direct them not to the archives of the oog forum, but to the in game newspaper and library...and when the player is done there and comes back to uf to discuss, he already has enough background info to know what game it's all relevant to, and he can jump in a lot easier in a discussion without being completely lost to any backstory. He actually would have the same data as other players who already got involved, save but specifics of player/character interaction.

I would also add that if anyone does get involved in this as a resource for ARGland, I too would toss my time and energy into helping it grow.

So get on it!! Laughing
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It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

It's two fat German guy's making shit up as they go along. I'm pissed I wasted my time with this! Mr. Green

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:36 pm
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