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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Proofreading
Moderators: imbri, ndemeter
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas

 		Proofreading
I almost hesitate to post this because I'm afraid someone will take it personally. I'm gonna do it anyway and hope that people will see the intent behind the message is constructive criticism.

When you're running a game, please have someone with a strong grasp of spelling and grammar proofread your work. There's plenty of stuff that will pass spellcheckers (i.e. "it's" vs. "its", "you're" vs. "your", "discreet" vs. "discrete", excessive use of commas, misplaced punctuation, etc.). Don't rely on yourself to proofread your own work. If you wrote it, odds are it looks right to you. Someone else is more likely to see something you have missed.

To me, typos destroy the illusion of TINAG. A real-life newspaper or big corporation site would not have multiple typos on its webpages. Trying to maintain suspension of disbelief is impossible to me when plowing through text that is riddled with spelling and grammatical errors. I'm not 100% pedantic and I can overlook a couple of typos, but I get frustrated by multiple errors, and seeing a page like that will more than likely drive me away from the game.

This does not refer to anything specifically. I've seen several games, either in action or in archives, that have had many typos. I ended up staying away from one of them because of it. Another game claimed that all the typos were intentional, which remains to be seen, but on initial review of the material I was completely turned off.

For me at least, seeing proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation is directly related to my enjoyment of the game. I am much less likely to play a game that contains a lot of errors.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:25 pm
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dmax
Unfictologist

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1387
Location: Location: Location!

 		I have to second Addle's comments.

The way some clues are set up, the point is that the word is spelled wrong or in the wrong location. If you can't separate error from clue, then I don't bother going any further.

All of us, at some point, begin to obsess on minute details in a picture or press release or whatever. If we can't trust the data, then we can't trust the theory that comes from the data.

Remember the ACKeron page that listed the woman as a man on the police report? Fortunately, we were able to work past it. However, it was no small issue. In another setting, it might have been something very very confusing. That sort of stuff can deal a death blow to anyone's interest, particularly if it happens more than a few times.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:58 pm
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jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia

 		As a former PM-ish kind of guy, typos became very torublesome when players found them in puzzles. I can definitely see the logic behind this idea. A good note to all those hard working PMs during beta testing periods.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:20 pm
Last edited by jamesi on Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ScarpeGrosse
Site Admin


Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1678
Location: The Shiny Castle in the Sky, Full of Cotton Candy and Hazelnut Lattes

 		Also - If you are one of the pedantic types who gets stuck proofreading content, do remember to delete the old, unproofed file so that it doesn't somehow get uploaded into the game by mistake. Trust me, it hurts.

*edited for grammar*
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:23 pm
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vpisteve
Asshatministrator


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2441
Location: 1987

 		I just want to say, that if you have the time to proofread something three times before it goes live, it's a luxery.

Razz

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:38 pm
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NashCarey
Veteran

Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 102
Location: Nierstein, Germany

 		Addlepated wrote:
Quote:
To me, typos destroy the illusion of TINAG. A real-life newspaper or big corporation site would not have multiple typos on its webpages. Trying to maintain suspension of disbelief is impossible to me when plowing through text that is riddled with spelling and grammatical errors. I'm not 100% pedantic and I can overlook a couple of typos, but I get frustrated by multiple errors, and seeing a page like that will more than likely drive me away from the game.


I used to get the Daily Olympian (real life paper). The paper was terrible with the poor grammer, and telling me story continued on this page and no conclusion of the story was present. I eventually discontinued and went with another paper. So yes, you are correct I can only tollerate so much.

Now in case someone is thinking AWARE has those same mistakes; DING, DING, DING!!! You are correct!! I don't claim to be perfect, and I don't claim to be able to proofread what is put up there all the time. I won't have that capability for a couple more weeks when I get home from Iraq. You should see an improvement, but not perfection.

Also, if you take time to interact with the in-game characters you will learn Melody Heller is a full-time cafe waitress, and part-time student at a community college. She is not a writer by trade, and she is new at web design. (Kind of convenient for me huh?)

Ideltech Industries is run by three programmers. A temp secretary manages the site until the construction is closer to being done. (In real life I am waiting for Flash to get to me from Ebay).

My mistake was my excitement. When I finally got done writing AWARE I wanted to see something done before I lost motivation. So I jumped the gun and introduced people to it before I had full control of what is happening. So for now my best product is not out there. But if everyone is ready to look a little deeper and try to use your imagination a little (someting required in all ARG's), you might find yourself enjoying yourself more.

I ensure you quality is my desire.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:58 am
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

 		Re: Proofreading
addlepated wrote:
A real-life newspaper or big corporation site would not have multiple typos on its webpages. ...
For me at least, seeing proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation is directly related to my enjoyment of the game. I am much less likely to play a game that contains a lot of errors.



I agree that with the amount of spell checking programs that at least things should be spelled correctly. I use mine all the time, and yes you see typos here in unfiction from me, because it has no spell checker. Hopefully I catch them eventually and correct them.
As for newspapers, lately, I have seen many spelling and gammar mistakes, simply because they were relying far too much on the basic word processor and not on actual people to ask questions.

I can at least be another set of eyes to look at something and ask you if you meant to say it the way you have it set on a draft copy.

(and will one of you programming types please make a spellchecker for phpBBs please?????!!!)
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:43 pm
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jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia
vpisteve wrote:
I just want to say, that if you have the time to proofread something three times before it goes live, it's a luxery.

Razz


Luxery. Heh.

/me gets a joke (finally)
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:56 pm
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dnbmathguy
Veteran

Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 87
jamesi wrote:
As a former PM-ish kind of guy, typos became very torublesome when players found them in puzzles. I can definitely see the logic behind this idea. A good note to all those hard working PMs during beta testing periods.


Troublesome. Very Happy

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:49 pm
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jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia
dnbmathguy wrote:
jamesi wrote:
As a former PM-ish kind of guy, typos became very torublesome when players found them in puzzles. I can definitely see the logic behind this idea. A good note to all those hard working PMs during beta testing periods.


Troublesome. Very Happy


That's friggin hilarious! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:22 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		definitely!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:10 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		Oh man, I was making another joke, but you bastards have it auto-correct defin a tely for us!


*shakes fist*

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:11 pm
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas

 		I was afraid someone would take my post personally. Nowhere did I say that a game has to be completely error-free. In fact, I said that a couple of typos don't worry me. It happens.

However:

NashCarey wrote:
But if everyone is ready to look a little deeper and try to use your imagination a little (someting required in all ARG's), you might find yourself enjoying yourself more.


I'm lost here. Does dislike of typos equate lack of imagination?

All I'm saying is that it's a good idea to have someone proofread your work. The willing suspension of disbelief is a job for both actor and audience to accomplish. When you see the movie The Alamo and notice the red pickup truck driving down the highway in the background, it's difficult to maintain the belief that you are watching events that happened in 1836. In Raiders of the Lost Ark, you can see the glass pane separating Harrison Ford from the striking cobra. In Star Wars, Luke calls out "Carrie!" to Princess Leia. What redeems these movies is other fantastic elements that make you want to suspend your disbelief. Fine acting, fine storytelling, a low number of less obvious errors. In Robinson Crusoe, the main character swims naked to his wrecked ship and proceeds to fill up his pockets with items.

Daniel Defoe isn't immune to criticism, nor George Lucas or Steven Spielberg. There are entire websites set up that focus on movie goofs or flubs. Books have been published about them. I think that ARG players are generally a forgiving bunch and are willing to let slide quite a few things. However, when you put something out there for a lot of people to look at, don't be surprised if someone offers up some constructive criticism. What I said was not meant to hurt anyone, but to help. It was not specific in nature. If you feel it applies to you, that's your prerogative. All I ask is that you take it in the spirit intended, which was helpful, and not presume it's an attack.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:19 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		PM revenge
Let's remember that the player's don't have the last word. As this is an interactive medium, the PMs respond to players complaints, sometimes in a manner that reminds me of the response of a home plate umpire to a manager or player questioning a call. Not that it isn't deserved. Smile

What we've heard lately in aware:
"they want things spelled out for them"
spec and time spent searching for clues hidden in deliberate misspellings
and the denouement of a puzzle : a site DDGABcC.htm (case sensitive)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:17 am
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