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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[Update][Meta] Jamie's Photobucket updated
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Duckie
Unfettered


Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 401
Location: Drifter

 		Re: Waiter....Reality Check, please!
brettoniasam wrote:
A few things to keep in mind amid all the hysteria:

1) First, foremost: this is VIRAL ADVERTISING for a MOVIE, folks. *Not* the same thing as hacking into the Pentagon, or Oprah Winfrey's Master Plan for World Domination.
2) NOBODY is going to get fired at Paramount's end for lax security, fer chrissake.
3) For those of you trying to "ssssh! keep it down -- maybe they won't notice we were here" -- keep in mind that the PMs read this forum regularly...and no doubt are reading this very thread. If they don't know already, they'll know soon enough EXACTLY what was hacked, who did the hacking, when it happened....all thanks to this very thread.
4) JJ isn't going to pick up his toys and go home over a cheese-hack like this, for god's sake. Again: it's VIRAL ADVERTISING, for a MOVIE.

This ISN'T like an ordinary ARG, where "the game's the thing." In Cloverfield World, the ADVERTISING is "the thing." Bad Robot and Paramount aren't even THINKING about ditching a $30 mil project because of some meddling kids and their dumb dog Scooby. Rolling Eyes

.....Reeeeeelax, y'all.


Whatever you think about the PMs obligation to us, they'd get TONS more publicity and press if they got pissed off and shut down the game. From their standpoint, they'd really only be winning. This game isn't the bulk advertising-- the trailer is. This game is a sideshow. A distraction. Something to entertain a few internet people so long as the original trailer gets the mainstream public talking.

Finally, hacking is hacking, and I still hold that its a no-no.
It's just not nice.
No, I don't think anyone is getting sued over this. But that doesn't mean that its not a big deal, and not worth pointing out when we've crossed the line.

Edit: I came across way too strong. Removed some personal anger, kept the original point. Going to bed now. zzzzz.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:00 am
Last edited by Duckie on Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Euchre
uF Game Warden


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 3342

 		Re: Waiter....Reality Check, please!
brettoniasam wrote:
JJ isn't going to pick up his toys and go home over a cheese-hack like this, for god's sake. Again: it's VIRAL ADVERTISING, for a MOVIE.

This ISN'T like an ordinary ARG, where "the game's the thing." In Cloverfield World, the ADVERTISING is "the thing." Bad Robot and Paramount aren't even THINKING about ditching a $30 mil project because of some meddling kids and their dumb dog Scooby. Rolling Eyes

I know I didn't suggest the movie wouldn't happen, but the website based evolving campaign could. What small interaction we've seen could dry up, and the sites could become like static playback alone.
It'd sure save some money if they bailed out of the website advertising, more to spend on the much more expensive conventional advertising.

Again, we shall see...
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Any sufficiently plausible fiction is indistinguishable from reality.
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ŠEuchre 2007

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:02 am
Last edited by Euchre on Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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brettoniasam
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Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 340

 		Re: Waiter....Reality Check, please!
Euchre wrote:
It'd sure save some money if they bailed out of the website advertising, more to spend on the much more expensive conventional advertising.

Again, we shall see...


Ah, but there's the rub for JJ. He doesn't WANT conventional advertising.

I strongly suspect he's trying to prove a point -- to Paramount, to the world, to himself -- that he *can* create a successful movie through totally unconventional (read: viral) advertising, thus keeping the bloated cow that is Madison Avenue out of the equation altogether.

JJ might view the Myspace hack as a learning experience and probably try harder to secure and monitor the sites, but I sincerely doubt he will see this as a setback of any scale.

The "game" will go on. I have no doubt of that.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:15 am
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Finch
Decorated


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 150
Location: Wisconsin

 		Hacking the myspace pages is illegal. hacking the PB accounts is illegal. Gaining access to content and not the actual site of jamie loves teddy is a gray area and one that proved to be IG. Dice it, slice it, rationalize it any way you like. It is what it is. Also note that "easy" passwords don't make things any more legal or any less illegal.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:19 am
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brettoniasam
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Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 340
Finch wrote:
Hacking the myspace pages is illegal. hacking the PB accounts is illegal. Gaining access to content and not the actual site of jamie loves teddy is a gray area and one that proved to be IG. Dice it, slice it, rationalize it any way you like. It is what it is. Also note that "easy" passwords don't make things any more legal or any less illegal.


Yes, we get it: hacking is illegal.

But if Paramount tried to press charges or bring suit against some kids hacking a fictitious character's Myspace page that was part of an ad campaign, they'd be laughed out of court and would be immediately demonized in both the blogosphere and the Real World for being corporate bullies over something childish and petty.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:42 am
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Finch
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Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 150
Location: Wisconsin
brettoniasam wrote:
Finch wrote:
Hacking the myspace pages is illegal. hacking the PB accounts is illegal. Gaining access to content and not the actual site of jamie loves teddy is a gray area and one that proved to be IG. Dice it, slice it, rationalize it any way you like. It is what it is. Also note that "easy" passwords don't make things any more legal or any less illegal.


Yes, we get it: hacking is illegal.

But if Paramount tried to press charges or bring suit against some kids hacking a fictitious character's Myspace page that was part of an ad campaign, they'd be laughed out of court and would be immediately demonized in both the blogosphere and the Real World for being corporate bullies over something childish and petty.



I need only point to the RIAA for corporate bullies suing childishly and winning. Laughed out of the courtroom? Laws were broken, I'm glad you get that but then you must also get that any lawsuit would be justified by the laws being broken.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:58 am
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The Internet
Boot

Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 68

 		Anything that has such a simple password deserves to be cracked. If they wanted to keep it from us, they would of used a number & letter password in some random order. TBH i doubt they really care all that much, there was nothing there of importance and it only served to detain us from finding real clues.


People, it isn't anything serious, it's not like we stalked the actors or writers now is it?

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:38 am
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Finch
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Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 150
Location: Wisconsin
The Internet wrote:
Anything that has such a simple password deserves to be cracked. If they wanted to keep it from us, they would of used a number & letter password in some random order. TBH i doubt they really care all that much, there was nothing there of importance and it only served to detain us from finding real clues.


People, it isn't anything serious, it's not like we stalked the actors or writers now is it?


Ugh, I'll mention it again. Regardless of how "easy" the password was its still not legal to crack it.

I do agree I don't think they would do anything about this. However no matter what any of us speculate none of us are Paramount (or whoever would be legally involved). I have to say they could do something though, and thats where I'll leave it.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:56 am
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keeno_82uk
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Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 375
Location: UK

 		*surveys the aftermath*

tut tut

The pandora's box of informaiton was too enticing for you to stay away and now all hell breaks loose.

The "puppet masters" should have changed the password more often to ensure no hacking anyway.

I've briefly glanced over the 10+ pages previous and i think i saw someone say they hacked to prevent hackers... doing a wrong act doesn't make a right, it was stupid to do such a thing.

now on with the solving and what not. (damn i hate time differences Crying or Very sad )

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:44 am
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Finch
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Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 150
Location: Wisconsin
keeno_82uk wrote:
*surveys the aftermath*

tut tut

The pandora's box of informaiton was too enticing for you to stay away and now all hell breaks loose.

The "puppet masters" should have changed the password more often to ensure no hacking anyway.

I've briefly glanced over the 10+ pages previous and i think i saw someone say they hacked to prevent hackers... doing a wrong act doesn't make a right, it was stupid to do such a thing.

now on with the solving and what not. (damn i hate time differences Crying or Very sad )


Ha, yeah I know the feeling. Half a world away but I'm a 3rd shifter here so I usually miss the big breaks of the day.

As was mentioned "On with the solving"

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:57 am
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Nighthawk
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 4751
Location: Miami, Florida, USA, Earth
brettoniasam wrote:
Finch wrote:
Hacking the myspace pages is illegal. hacking the PB accounts is illegal. Gaining access to content and not the actual site of jamie loves teddy is a gray area and one that proved to be IG. Dice it, slice it, rationalize it any way you like. It is what it is. Also note that "easy" passwords don't make things any more legal or any less illegal.


Yes, we get it: hacking is illegal.

But if Paramount tried to press charges or bring suit against some kids hacking a fictitious character's Myspace page that was part of an ad campaign, they'd be laughed out of court and would be immediately demonized in both the blogosphere and the Real World for being corporate bullies over something childish and petty.


No, they wouldn't be "laughed out of court"... It's hacking, no mater what is actually being hacked. You hacked a site that had someone else's content, and they have every right to press charges, especially considering this very thread could be taken as evidence.

Hacking is also not "childish and petty"... You don't seem to realize how bad this *could* have gotten, do you? What's stopping anyone from posting R or X rated pictures on these sites, violating the terms of service and shutting the whole chain of sites we're using down?

And, for the record, I personally know of some "kids" that have been charged with some similar offenses.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:13 am
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brettoniasam
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Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 340
Nighthawk wrote:

No, they wouldn't be "laughed out of court"... It's hacking, no mater what is actually being hacked. You hacked a site that had someone else's content, and they have every right to press charges, especially considering this very thread could be taken as evidence.

Hacking is also not "childish and petty"... You don't seem to realize how bad this *could* have gotten, do you? What's stopping anyone from posting R or X rated pictures on these sites, violating the terms of service and shutting the whole chain of sites we're using down?

And, for the record, I personally know of some "kids" that have been charged with some similar offenses.


Yes, Nighthawk (and Finch), I'm well aware of the legal ramifications of hacking.

But again, reality check in this case:

*Jamie Lascano/Rob Hawkins Myspace pages: fictitious characters.
*NONE of the Myspace pages are copyright- or trademark- protected.
*NONE of the Myspace pages even show a direct link to Paramount Pictures (other than a password) or Bad Robot.
*NONE of the Myspace pages generate any money for Paramount Pictures, or Bad Robot; nor can the case be made that they even *indirectly* generate money in the form of advertising. Hell, they can't even prove that the Myspace pages are even LINKED to their movie.

In other words: in the eyes of the law, the only "victims" in this hacking case are Jamie Lascano and Rob Hawkins. Neither such person actually exists. Therefore: no crime exists.

Case dismissed.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:42 am
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1-18-08.livejournal.com
Boot

Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 53

 		Dr. Awkward did nothing wrong. Photobucket accounts can have TWO passwords, an account password necessary for deleting/uploading, etc, and a guest password people can use to view a private album without having the ability to delete or upload new images. We were obviously meant to hack her videos site, so it would make perfect sense if we were meant to hack her photobucket's guest password as well. The PM's should have known not to have the account password be something so simple when they should have known people would be trying to hack the guest password thinking they were meant to do so. Bad move.

Off topic, but it reminds me of this kid I knew who gave out his photobucket account password thinking he was giving out the guest password. So I changed his password, uploaded some April Fool's pictures so he'd know he'd been hacked, and made a guest password using his original password so he could only log in as a guest, thinking "haha that'll teach him a lesson." But of course it didn't, because he just created a new account using the same password.

Annnnyway that's not what happened here because, as has already been pointed out, they would have used an IG word as a password rather than the OOG "paramount." But my point is, photobucket has guest passwords, so we could have easily assumed we were expected to figure it out, as opposed to trying to guess the myspace passwords or FTP accounts for the sites, which would definitely be considered hacking. Dr. Awkward isn't to blame here, the PM's are.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:06 am
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Kraker
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 749

 		I think we're all forgetting that the real damage was done with Jamie's account (I personally believe the new pictures were not uploaded by PMs and the other ones removed, but rather by some irresponsible lurkers). Hopefully they have backups and will be able to re-access to account hoping those who messed with it didn't mess it up too badly.

For now, let's be afraid of that, if anything

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:20 am
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Finch
Decorated


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 150
Location: Wisconsin
brettoniasam wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:

No, they wouldn't be "laughed out of court"... It's hacking, no mater what is actually being hacked. You hacked a site that had someone else's content, and they have every right to press charges, especially considering this very thread could be taken as evidence.

Hacking is also not "childish and petty"... You don't seem to realize how bad this *could* have gotten, do you? What's stopping anyone from posting R or X rated pictures on these sites, violating the terms of service and shutting the whole chain of sites we're using down?

And, for the record, I personally know of some "kids" that have been charged with some similar offenses.


Yes, Nighthawk (and Finch), I'm well aware of the legal ramifications of hacking.

But again, reality check in this case:

*Jamie Lascano/Rob Hawkins Myspace pages: fictitious characters.
*NONE of the Myspace pages are copyright- or trademark- protected.
*NONE of the Myspace pages even show a direct link to Paramount Pictures (other than a password) or Bad Robot.
*NONE of the Myspace pages generate any money for Paramount Pictures, or Bad Robot; nor can the case be made that they even *indirectly* generate money in the form of advertising. Hell, they can't even prove that the Myspace pages are even LINKED to their movie.

In other words: in the eyes of the law, the only "victims" in this hacking case are Jamie Lascano and Rob Hawkins. Neither such person actually exists. Therefore: no crime exists.

Case dismissed.


All they need to say is these were to be used more directly in the marketing closer to the movie. I don't care who owned these things its still not legal. Why are you trying to justify this anyway? Here's a reality check for you: Its illegal "I get that", well then act like it. Go ahead and show me your paycheck from Paramount's marketing department or the certificate they gave you when you passed the bar to practice law and then I'll respect your lack of common sense. Until then all I'm seeing is "we hax0red your accountz FTW 1337!111111"[/i]

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:27 am
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