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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[Update][Meta] Jamie's Photobucket updated
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pegassissy
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Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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brettoniasam wrote:
In other words: in the eyes of the law, the only "victims" in this hacking case are Jamie Lascano and Rob Hawkins. Neither such person actually exists. Therefore: no crime exists.
Case dismissed.

Wasnt gonna get involved until I read the above. Will Paramount sue or file charges or do whatever else you guys are saying they will do? No. JJ and a group of his closest people and marketers and whoever had an emergancy meeting yesterday to figure out what they are going to do. Obviously we werent supposed to get into the photobucket with a password like paramount. They sat down and figured out what the hell they are going to do. The gam is NOT in jeopardy. I finally got around to watching the first season of lost, and last night i just finished it. You wanna know what i learned? JJ, Damon Lieber, and Jeffery Leiber are geniuses. JJ will figure something out. Do not worry.
Now about the quote. all I can say is are you kidding me? In the eeyes of the law, there is no persons Jamie Lansco and Rob Hawkins. Last time I checked they dont give social security #s and birth certifacates to fictional characters. We illegaly hacked into someones personal account. "Well the password was easy." Shut the f*** up. Are you kidding me? My password could be password, and guess what? If you hcked into my paypal account, you would be charged to the max if caught. This is different because it is a fictional character, and paramount new we were trying to hack the photobucket. No charges will be filed.
No the victims are not Jamie and Rob. You know who the victims are? Paramount. Say this thing completely colapsed, like they had a pic of the monster in the photobucket or something. Then they would be the ones losing tons of $$$$$$$ and tons of time that they spent on this project and if they choose to sue they would not "be laughed out of court." Maybe and thats a big maybe, they would lose civily, but not criminally. They (paramount) will not sue or press charge on you Dr. Akward. You are all set. You guys need to calm down, and go outside. If you live in NYC, its gonna be a great day. 75 degrees, partly cloudy.
In conclusion and if you didnt want to read all that. There was a crime, it doesnt matter, calm down, Jamie and rob arent real, and paramount is the victim. Next topic.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:53 am
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SlushoLover
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Joined: 30 Jul 2007
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brettoniasam wrote:
Yes, Nighthawk (and Finch), I'm well aware of the legal ramifications of hacking.


No, I don't think you do, so it obviously needs to be expounded upon since none of what duckie is saying seems to be sinking in. Cracking someone's password and gaining access to a secured system is illegal. The people who you should be concerned about are not just the owners of the account. The SYSTEM owners, myspace.com or News Corp in this case - and the whole Rupert Murdoch conglomerate.

brettoniasam wrote:
But again, reality check in this case:

*Jamie Lascano/Rob Hawkins Myspace pages: fictitious characters.
*NONE of the Myspace pages are copyright- or trademark- protected.
*NONE of the Myspace pages even show a direct link to Paramount Pictures (other than a password) or Bad Robot.
*NONE of the Myspace pages generate any money for Paramount Pictures, or Bad Robot; nor can the case be made that they even *indirectly* generate money in the form of advertising. Hell, they can't even prove that the Myspace pages are even LINKED to their movie.

In other words: in the eyes of the law, the only "victims" in this hacking case are Jamie Lascano and Rob Hawkins. Neither such person actually exists. Therefore: no crime exists.

Case dismissed.


Perry Mason - NONE of myspace accounts are owned by the people that use them. They are owned by myspace.com. The victim in this case is myspace.com - the crime is computer fraud. Just because you think "no harm no foul" is a valid defense does not make it so. You had access to the personal account information of "one of their users". It doesn't matter if the user is real or not.

And those that are using the white hat defense, guess what. You're guilty too. Breaking into a secured computer system, even to prevent others from doing harm, is still against the law.

I'm a systems administrator for a mid-sized server provider. Trust me, I deal with this garbage day in and day out. You might not get prosecuted for breaking into the backend of the jamieandteddy.com site, since it would seem they allowed us to do so by setting it up as such. But the PMs do not control Myspace or Photobucket. Breaking into those systems is wrong, no matter what you say or how you justify it.

And if you think nothing will come of what you've done just google the phrase "myspace hacker" and see for yourself how they do pursue people who hack into other people's accounts.

/end rant

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:04 am
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Arkaham
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 		So... monday already. Did the PMs got up to work? Are the passwords changed? The PhotoBucket fixed? Is paramount legal team sending the monster over to uF to step on us in punishment?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:10 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
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Quote:
Is paramount legal team sending the monster over to uF to step on us in punishment?


I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Smile

Again, I don't see where the concern is coming from that JJ Abrams, Paramount or anyone else would shut down this promotion? I can't tell if this is something the players are worried about sui generis, or if something was said by the company. I haven't seen anything from the company, but perhaps I am missing something.

Also, you know, the issue of hacking...well the game has already set itself up for players to try random passwords to get into one site. There weren't puzzles to be solved really, just a page with a login and password. Doesn't this lend itself to the idea that players might be supposed to try to get access to other sites? I see this as part of the overall design, or rather lack of design, problem with this promotion.

I agree with this from an upthread post by 1-18-08.livejournal.com :

Quote:
We were obviously meant to hack her videos site, so it would make perfect sense if we were meant to hack her photobucket's guest password as well. The PM's should have known not to have the account password be something so simple when they should have known people would be trying to hack the guest password thinking they were meant to do so. Bad move.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:49 pm
Last edited by rose on Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:03 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Kraker
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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rose wrote:
Quote:
Is paramount legal team sending the monster over to uF to step on us in punishment?


I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Smile


Well, it would happen overnight... So I guess we would be asleep anyway.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:53 pm
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Arkaham
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rose wrote:
I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Smile

Again, I don't see where the concern is coming from that JJ Abrams, Paramount or anyone else would shut down this promotion? I can't tell if this is something the players are worried about sui generis, or if something was said by the company. I haven't seen anything from the company, but perhaps I am missing something.

Also, you know, the issue of hacking...well the game has already set itself up for players to try random passwords to get into one site. There weren't puzzles to be solved really, just a page with a login and password. Doesn't this lend itself to the idea that players might be supposed to try to get access to other sites? I see this as part of the overall design, or rather lack of design, problem with this promotion.


Just in case it isn't clear: I was kidding. I really don't think there will be a legal issue.

But going back to the hacking thing, we do need to learn some common sense here. Sure, part of the game was to 'hack' into the videos site so one could think 'hacking' into everything is encouraged. But if you think about it calmly you'll see why it was a mistake. What good could have come out of players getting into photobucket? Is not like there was going to be a clue that only the main user of the account could see. Is not even a real IG site, it's more of a tool of the game, used to hold the pictures used on other accounts. And then, giving players access to deleting and putting up things? No, especialy not on a game that's corporated sponsored. Someone could had replaced one of the pictures that showed on some myspace for something nasty, and then they would be in trouble.

Common sense people. That's the key to self control.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:08 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
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Quote:
What good could have come out of players getting into photobucket? Is not like there was going to be a clue that only the main user of the account could see.


Do we know that for sure? Even if we did, players are going to push the boundaries of the space.

Quote:
Someone could had replaced one of the pictures that showed on some myspace for something nasty, and then they would be in trouble.


Yes, they could have. But they chose not to.

What fascinates me is that not only did they not do that, players discussed what to do that would best benefit the game. I know I'm not the only one who sees how awesome that is.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:25 pm
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Kraker
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Kraker wrote:
I think we're all forgetting that the real damage was done with Jamie's account (I personally believe the new pictures were not uploaded by PMs and the other ones removed, but rather by some irresponsible lurkers). Hopefully they have backups and will be able to re-access to account hoping those who messed with it didn't mess it up too badly.

For now, let's be afraid of that, if anything


quoting myself.

Not all is well from this "hacking"

Damage was done, photos were messed with, and a lurker grabbed the account for his own. We can only hope that person was nice enough to send the new password to the email account provided, not hack into Jamie's myspace, and let things be.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:29 pm
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Arkaham
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rose wrote:
What fascinates me is that not only did they not do that, players discussed what to do that would best benefit the game. I know I'm not the only one who sees how awesome that is.


Well, you are right on that one. The damage control was an awsome operation on the part of the involved. Thay do deserve a bow for that.

But it doesn't mean that this kind of thing should be encouraged. There was a rather crass attempt at derailing the game once the Photobucker was out in the open, pictures coming up and down, and they did end up damaging one myspace with that.

I'm not a Photobucket expert, but isn't all pictures there visible to everyone? I think (but I may be wrong and can't find some kind of manual on that site) that account access is only to upload and remove pictures. If that is the case, then we do know it was pointless to break in.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:33 pm
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TheBeginningIsTheEnd
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 		Personally I find it stupid that anyone would hack into it- And I find it especially stupid that JJ would let his Marketing Team use such an unsecure password.

Personally I think its a fault on their part. Even know it wasn't anyone's business to hack into the account, they really should've known a password that obvious wouldn't stay secure for long.


Arkaham- A friend of mine had her PB account set to private. I'm not sure how but it is possible to make it so you need to log in to see them.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:35 pm
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Arkaham
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TheBeginningIsTheEnd wrote:

Arkaham- A friend of mine had her PB account set to private. I'm not sure how but it is possible to make it so you need to log in to see them.


But can you have some pictures public and some private?

And indeed the biggest mistake here was the one made by the PMs, but I'm sure they realized it already (if they have not, it's time to get them fired). Meanwhile, many around here still seems to think it was smart to hack into the PB. What worries me more, they'll keep trying to get into the other myspaces accounts.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:45 pm
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rose
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Joined: 26 Nov 2003
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 		I'm a big believer in looking at what actually happened and not at what might have happened. The way that people act in a situation is important as are the reasons motivating them for those actions.

Quote:
But it doesn't mean that this kind of thing should be encouraged.

I don't think that people need encouragement to try to hack into any password protected site, even third party sites...they seem to do it anyway. (I wonder if it is possible to find out how many times someone attempted to hack Bree's lonelygirl15 youtube site. I will look into this.) At least they have in every game I've seen.

Quote:
Meanwhile, many around here still seems to think it was smart to hack into the PB. What worries me more, they'll keep trying to get into the other myspaces accounts.


I hope I don't seem like I am encouraging socially irresponsible hacking. What I don't agree with is the concern some players mentioned that it will stop this promotion from continuing or have negative results for the other (non-hacking) players. I also think the puppetmasters are responsible for security of the sites, not the players. That is my opinion, of course, I know that other people may not agree.
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Mankind was my business, the common good was my business.~ Dickens

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:51 pm
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wargasm
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 		could someone please lock this thread? this has to be the most irrelevant bunch of ramblings on this board since colbyrook.
for those of you that are following in the tradition of people playing this game and being massively over sensative and judgemental, shut up. whether or not what happened was a crime is not the issue. someone crossed the line, it was unfortunate, but it happens. lesson learned. also, spend some time on the REST of the internet for a while, photobucket, myspace, and anything else you can think of, gets hacked 2351324523 times a day. usually from people being stupid enough to give their passwords to attackers. in this case the password was so blatant that if one acctually were charged with a crime a simple "dumb luck" deffence would get them off. someone a while back in this thread mentioned people "commiting felonies". please. computer trespass with a suspended sentance. and thats IF someone is board enough to try and prosecute this. and IF you can find a judge as naive as the people who set their password to PARAMOUNT during an ARG run by that company on an account commonly believed to be involved in said ARG from said company, and IF their deffence lawyer is a 6 year old downs patient, which is what would be required to NOT be able to get them off that lame ass charge.

that said, you people know better than to hack a damn photobucket! guessing passwords is a common part of ARGs but damnit, if you cant tell the difference between an IG password on an IG page, and a photobucket account thats behind the damn curtain, you must be related to that defence attorney.


now. can we close this shit and get back to the game please?

edit for spelling....acctually...i dont care.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:04 pm
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rose
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Joined: 26 Nov 2003
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Quote:
could someone please lock this thread? this has to be the most irrelevant bunch of ramblings on this board since colbyrook.

Well, you know, no.

Irrelevant rambling, I won't take that personally just because I posted immediately before you and I'm sure no one else will either. Wink

(That said, if you find a thread to be irrelevant rambling not responding to it is the most effective way to help it end. ) I'm glad you posted though because you have a pretty good, although maybe a bit overly vitriolic, summary there.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:14 pm
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Arkaham
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rose wrote:

I don't think that people need encouragement to try to hack into any password protected site, even third party sites...they seem to do it anyway. (I wonder if it is possible to find out how many times someone attempted to hack Bree's lonelygirl15 youtube site. I will look into this.) At least they have in every game I've seen.


I bet about as many as the attempts to gamejack it. Wink But my point is that many people on this are new to the game. It is the first time they face an ARG, or something with ARG elements. If they see hacking turns people into the brave souls who pointed the flaws in the game, they'll do it in the next games they join, and things will progressivly get worst. I know we can't stop the hacking, but I hope we can let it clear that it's wrong.

Quote:
I also think the puppetmasters are responsible for security of the sites, not the players. That is my opinion, of course, I know that other people may not agree.


So, i.e. every site should be immune to brute force cracking? That kind of control is not possible. If enought people put their minds into it, they'll hack, crack and break anything. But uF is supposed to be a comunity, and I do think we can stop people from thinking that'll give them any kind of credit.

And I do agree with you that it is too fatalistic to think this incident 'ruined it' for everyone else. However, I want to do what I can to prevent some more serious incident from ruining it in the future. That's why I keep the discussion here. Just see that poll, people don't think hacking into the Photobucket account was wrong, therefore they'll try to do it again.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:18 pm
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