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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[SPEC]Ganu Yoshida, his evil henchmen & Connector of Doom
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Finch
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 		If I'm to believe Red Bull's advertising I'm going to grow a pair of wings after I drink a sip or two of that swill. If I'm to believe Pringles once I pop open a can of their salty snacks the fun will not stop.

I still see this all as an ode to wacky Japanese marketing, or just boisterous advertising in general. Many companies like to give the illusion that consuming the product that they make will make you bigger, stronger, faster etc. As far as the "you can't drink just six" sounds like a similar tag line "bet you can't eat just one". Both are used to try and get the consumer to purchase and eat/drink more of the product those phrases are attached to.

Frankly, if Tagruato by way of Slusho didn't want the US's FDA or USDA up their ass they would have just made this into a herbal suplement. You most certainly can't get an untested food item on the market here without it being approved (for some reason herbal supplements don't get the same attention which is rediculous if you ask me). Anything mind altering, narcotic and/or regulating bodily functions (steroids) wouldn't be allowed on US shelves and could possibly be found illegal to purchase and consume. Also, I would wager they'd see if the product remains safe at warmer temperatures.

You have well thought out points, don't get me wrong, I just see this a little differently Very Happy

{EDIT-

I present Exhibit A, file under wacky japanese advertising.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skBlEbsM0jM

Exhibit B

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IaQ1OxKCxQ&mode=related&search=
}

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:39 am
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Melampus
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 		Finch, I completely understand your position; I think it's the sensible view to take. I'm just trying out a theory - that's all. I'm not committed to it; just kickin' it around. I think you're right to be skeptical and assume it's just overzealous (and Japanese) advertising, as a sort of default position. At the same time, though, the "secret ingredient" seems to be cloaked w/an aura of mystery that goes beyond mere wacky advertising - especially w/all the articles of people feeling almost absurdly euphoric, and powerful, after drinking Slusho - when you combine those with the blurb about YMR's research, it's hard not to think there's a connection. So, here's one last bit of potential evidence: The Slusho Happy Talk page.

First, it's a mouth. (pause, for dramatic effect)... Second, all the lil' friendly animals are in the mouth. Why? Because, that's where the "magic" happens; that's where Slusho comes to life!!

Also, some of the messages they chose to use (many thanks to Cloverfieldclues for posting all the messages on the 10/5 New Happy Talk thread) seem to fit w/the general theory I've been excessively Embarassed going on about. The list below isn't all of the messages, but just the ones I think might relate to this theory, and I realize that w/one hialrious exception, these are all only vaguely related:

From the latest batch of quotes:

* I Slushoed myself! [maybe - vague ref. to fact that Slusho comes to life in the consumer's own mouth]
* I heard if you drink slusho you become as big as whale, is that true, also what new flavors are you guys adding? Also about the slusho, can you tell anymore information about where that special slusho came from or what's It all about?
* I like inviting Slusho to the party in my mouth. [Hilariously, this is the most dead on of all of them Dunno ]
* Most Honorable Satoshi, I really like the Slusho Zoom flavors of Mikan and Nashi mixed together. Please tell me about your secret ingredient. I promise I won't speak of it to anyone, honest. A devoted consumer in America, thank you -- Billy

From the batch before those:

* Slusho!, thanks for bringing joy to my family's life. But what are you all about?
* How do I get some of that tasty Slusho? I'm so excited to create my OWN amanzing flavor combinations!!! [again, the vague ref. to the fact that it comes to life in the consumer's own mouth]
* This all is very mysterious. Slusho frightens me, but at the same time I want to drink 6 and be the whale.
* I Slushoed myself!

From the original batch of quotes:

* Happy, am I happy? Of course I am. I love Slusho. I enjoy your product, and I feel Ganu's dream when I drink it. Thanks for turning me into a whale... keep up the good work.
* Slusho is people!!! [again, WE, the consumers, make it come to life]
* Slusho is the best drink ever! It makes my tastebuds ring! Keep up the good work!!!

I realize these quotes are hardly any kind of "smoking gun" - but, they're at least consistent w/what I've been suggesting. Also, remember that they don't make these up; they chose from things we sent in, so if they want to 'steer' us toward anything, they could prob. only do it in a vague way. I left out the several messages that talk about being deliriously happy, or being a whale, or drinking more slusho to get even happier, etc. Those fit too, but they didn't seem worth repeating.

Ok, that really is it. A thousand apologies for monopolizing so much space w/my own theory - just wanted to get everything I could find out on the table for consideration.

Finch: those commercials are funny as hell.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:12 am
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lordnaff
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 		This all makes a lot of sense except for the old lady hooking up the equivalent of a banana milkshake to her IV! I'm no physician but surely putting something like that directly into your blood stream should be dangerous? And why would she want (or the people administering it) a flavored drink going into her veins rather than in her pie-hole?

There is obviously something organic that is in the sea-bed nectar that is safe to be injected. Whether it's bacteria, viral or something like the water bear (.link.). Whatever it is links all the Tagruato corp subsidiaries together:

Slusho! - flavor enhancer (and good for old people, performance enhancing)
Yoshida Medical Research - medical applications of the sea-bed nectar, genetic engineering
Bold Futura - extreme engineering of machinery (nanotechnology?), has worked with: military organizations, space exploration institutions, and arms manufacturers (aside: the BF page on Tagruate.jp says to email them for more info, but no email link is given). This is the most sinister subsidiary and most likely to be the "baddies" with a hidden agenda
ParafFUN - producers of wax. Looking at wikipedia, parafin is a product of petroleum and is an alkane.

I can't see how sea-nectar is related to Bold Futura or ParafFun, but I'm sure it is somehow.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:27 am
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Melampus
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 		The article about the old folks being served Slusho only says:

"Another aged lady asked to have a Nashi-Banana Anime hooked into her IV."

It doesn't say they actually gave her Slusho intravenously. I think that was just a joke; a light-hearted way to say that the old folks really loved the stuff!

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:37 am
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john locke
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Quote:
There is obviously something organic that is in the sea-bed nectar that is safe to be injected. Whether it's bacteria, viral or something like the water bear (.link.). Whatever it is links all the Tagruato corp subsidiaries together

I think that either Melampus's "watchmen" theory hiolds the most water! but the waterbear thing is EXTREMELY interesting these things can survive almaost anything even a vacuum they can survive temperature extremes and go for a decade without water! If our beastie is going to be a mutation/engineered/ prehistoric thing this fits the bill down to the fact that it even has 3 claws per hand! possibly OOG is a site I stumbled onto yesterday "tardis" something or other that involved waterbears being sent into space exposed yto solar radiation, vacuum etc.. and guess what they got them back to earth last month!!! (creepy huh)!

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:19 am
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Darkurth2000
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 		Ummmm...what if what they're harvesting is the eggs of something much bigger? I looked around and did a search on here, didn't find this.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:29 am
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Red Walrus
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Darkurth2000 wrote:
Ummmm...what if what they're harvesting is the eggs of something much bigger? I looked around and did a search on here, didn't find this.

http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21345
That may be a pausible theory, I made mention of it in my extremophile thread(which I still think may be the key to everything). Remember that Star Trek episode where the tunnel making monster was just protecting her eggs. Devil in the Dark.

So here's a picture of it again, an extremophile, a tardigrade(water bear) whose body goes into a different state when frozen or dried out. This is its' egg looking similar to the secret ingedient cartoon rendition on the Slusho! site:
waterbeareggbest.jpg
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waterbeareggbest.jpg

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:02 am
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brettoniasam
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Finch wrote:

Frankly, if Tagruato by way of Slusho didn't want the US's FDA or USDA up their ass they would have just made this into a herbal suplement. You most certainly can't get an untested food item on the market here without it being approved (for some reason herbal supplements don't get the same attention which is rediculous if you ask me). Anything mind altering, narcotic and/or regulating bodily functions (steroids) wouldn't be allowed on US shelves and could possibly be found illegal to purchase and consume. Also, I would wager they'd see if the product remains safe at warmer temperatures.



That could be part of the movie's plot, at least at the outset -- trying to get Slusho and/or the DSI past the FDA bureaucrats. Hell, Slusho may not even make it to the store shelves (fictionally speaking here) by 1/18/08....it could still be an Asian-only market, with only a few Slushos smuggled into New York by Asian travelers and Slusho employees like Rob.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:06 am
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Almijisti
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 		The American angle
After a month-long hiatus, I've jumped back into things and see I didn't miss too much, since it was all speculation until the last week or so when tagruato.jp was discovered (excellent work, btw, Dr. Awkward). The thing about all this that keeps nagging me is that so far, most of what's been said since the discovery seems to be pointing toward a Japanese angle to this monster. Even if we consider that the soon-to-be-opened drilling station in the Mid-Atlantic region is near the US territorial waters, everything is the result of a Japanese company's operations that presumably causes the monster to awaken, grow, or perhaps be artificially created. Fine, but what about JJA's fairly pointed exclamation at ComicCon that he wanted an American monster? Well, I see two possible solutions to the paradox.

First, all of the slusho/tagruato stuff could be nothing more than a subplot that has nothing whatsoever to do with the monster. This, I accept, seems to be fairly unlikely and would be more than a bit annoying if true. It's too much work to just catapult an intentional red herring at us. More likely is the possibility that Japanese interventions in the ocean inadvertently cause a monster to attack the US, while at the same time, the attack serves as an allegory of the rise of the "Asian Century" and the decline and decadence 21st Century American culture.

This would establish a direct parallel with the original film, Gojira. Gojira (Godzilla) was allegedly awoken by US nuclear tests in the South Pacific and was, at least superficially, an allegory of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well as the firebombing of Tokyo. But on a deeper or at least equal level, Godzilla was about the destruction wrought upon Japan as a result of Japan's own militarism.

The point of posting this here is to discount the notion that Tagruato has any intentional plans to cause the rise of the Cloverfield monster, or even that Slusho or DSN are the primal cause of the monster. That would, it seems to me, make the monster nothing more than a de facto Japanese monster that attacks the US--which to my tastes, would both violate what JJA has said about the film, as well as be disappointingly mundane. In other words, it would just be another pointless excuse to wreak CGI havoc (albeit through pseudo-handycam viewpoints). I think there is more to it than that.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:44 pm
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Finch
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 		Re: The American angle
Almijisti wrote:
After a month-long hiatus, I've jumped back into things and see I didn't miss too much, since it was all speculation until the last week or so when tagruato.jp was discovered (excellent work, btw, Dr. Awkward). The thing about all this that keeps nagging me is that so far, most of what's been said since the discovery seems to be pointing toward a Japanese angle to this monster. Even if we consider that the soon-to-be-opened drilling station in the Mid-Atlantic region is near the US territorial waters, everything is the result of a Japanese company's operations that presumably causes the monster to awaken, grow, or perhaps be artificially created. Fine, but what about JJA's fairly pointed exclamation at ComicCon that he wanted an American monster? Well, I see two possible solutions to the paradox.

First, all of the slusho/tagruato stuff could be nothing more than a subplot that has nothing whatsoever to do with the monster. This, I accept, seems to be fairly unlikely and would be more than a bit annoying if true. It's too much work to just catapult an intentional red herring at us. More likely is the possibility that Japanese interventions in the ocean inadvertently cause a monster to attack the US, while at the same time, the attack serves as an allegory of the rise of the "Asian Century" and the decline and decadence 21st Century American culture.

This would establish a direct parallel with the original film, Gojira. Gojira (Godzilla) was allegedly awoken by US nuclear tests in the South Pacific and was, at least superficially, an allegory of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well as the firebombing of Tokyo. But on a deeper or at least equal level, Godzilla was about the destruction wrought upon Japan as a result of Japan's own militarism.

The point of posting this here is to discount the notion that Tagruato has any intentional plans to cause the rise of the Cloverfield monster, or even that Slusho or DSN are the primal cause of the monster. That would, it seems to me, make the monster nothing more than a de facto Japanese monster that attacks the US--which to my tastes, would both violate what JJA has said about the film, as well as be disappointingly mundane. In other words, it would just be another pointless excuse to wreak CGI havoc (albeit through pseudo-handycam viewpoints). I think there is more to it than that.



I agree. If Tagruato sends the monster to attack the US on purpose then this becomes less of a monster movie and more of a war movie. I doubt we would ever get that much more backstory than the general audience that sees this at the theater so something that complex would have to be explained at least in part in the actual movie itself. Besides, revenge is a dish us Americans like served hot, fast and preferably through a drivethrough window, I can't imagine a movie where we get attacked and don't eventually retaliate.

If it does end up being Tagruato attacking NYC by way of a giant lion Razz they'd almost have to not reveal Tagruato's intentions until a sequel. Just hint at it on here and a little in the movie and keep the game going until Cloverfield 2 Monster Battles: Gotta Catch 'Em All.

I exaggerated but maybe you see what I mean, as others have said this bad boy would be too complex for its own good.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:21 am
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Almijisti
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 		Re: The American angle
Finch wrote:
I agree. If Tagruato sends the monster to attack the US on purpose then this becomes less of a monster movie and more of a war movie. I doubt we would ever get that much more backstory than the general audience that sees this at the theater so something that complex would have to be explained at least in part in the actual movie itself. Besides, revenge is a dish us Americans like served hot, fast and preferably through a drivethrough window, I can't imagine a movie where we get attacked and don't eventually retaliate.


All that having been said, there are a few significant anomalies with Tagruato Corp. For one thing, it was originally called 力の手, which I take it means "Holding (or "hidden") Energy in the Fist" or something like that. Little help please? It's interesting that it's written in the native characters, and not transliterated or translated. Forgive me if I missed something in the search, but I haven't stumbled upon any discussion of this. Anyway, there's other weirdness with the Company Formerly Known as 力の手.

For instance, it strikes me as odd that Kantaro Tagruato, a Polynesian (though possibly of Japanese descent) founded the mining company in 1945, of all things. It is true that although the CIA Factbook notes that Japan has "negligible mineral resources," it does indicate that the only significant deposits of coal are in Kyushu and also in the extreme north and that Inclined Gallery mining is the typical method. It's also true that Japan's minimalist coal industry was basically wiped out in the 1980s and that it's cheaper to import coal than mine it domestically. But what gives with the mysterious scandals? Why wasn't it enough to just say they went bankrupt simply because of the downturn in the mining industry--plausible enough, right?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:04 am
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Melampus
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 		Re: The American angle
Finch wrote:
If Tagruato sends the monster to attack the US on purpose then this becomes less of a monster movie and more of a war movie. I doubt we would ever get that much more backstory than the general audience that sees this at the theater so something that complex would have to be explained at least in part in the actual movie itself. Besides, revenge is a dish us Americans like served hot, fast and preferably through a drivethrough window, I can't imagine a movie where we get attacked and don't eventually retaliate.


That's a good point - there will have to be some kind of military response. Even if it's ultimately just swatted aside, there's got to be some attempt to kill/stop the thing. The audience will need that.

But, I think we'll see any retaliation (whether successful or not) like we saw it in Spielberg's War of the Worlds; as removed spectators/victims. Anything else would betray the loudly broadcasted promise of the trailer - that this is going to seem like it could really happen; and, for that to work, the characters we follow cannot be anyone out of the ordinary. They may die in horrible ways - they can be victims in crazy ways, but they cannot be directly (or even indirectly, I'd say) involved in the 'backstory' of how/why the monster arrived in NYC. That might make for a cool movie, but not in this style.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:51 am
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Almijisti
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 		Re: The American angle
Melampus wrote:
Finch wrote:
If Tagruato sends the monster to attack the US on purpose then this becomes less of a monster movie and more of a war movie. I doubt we would ever get that much more backstory than the general audience that sees this at the theater so something that complex would have to be explained at least in part in the actual movie itself. Besides, revenge is a dish us Americans like served hot, fast and preferably through a drivethrough window, I can't imagine a movie where we get attacked and don't eventually retaliate.


That's a good point - there will have to be some kind of military response. Even if it's ultimately just swatted aside, there's got to be some attempt to kill/stop the thing. The audience will need that.

But, I think we'll see any retaliation (whether successful or not) like we saw it in Spielberg's War of the Worlds; as removed spectators/victims. Anything else would betray the loudly broadcasted promise of the trailer - that this is going to seem like it could really happen; and, for that to work, the characters we follow cannot be anyone out of the ordinary. They may die in horrible ways - they can be victims in crazy ways, but they cannot be directly (or even indirectly, I'd say) involved in the 'backstory' of how/why the monster arrived in NYC. That might make for a cool movie, but not in this style.


While there's certain to be some sort of military/paramilitary response to the monster, I think what Finch was saying is that an attack by a Japanese-created monster would itself be more of a military attack by certain Japanese elements. That would demand a retaliation toward those Japanese-controlled interests. In other words, a war-film, as he put it. What I was saying before, however, is that the monster won't be this at all; the Japanese influence here is at best allegorical (rise of Asia), and likely is presented as an inadvertent or accidental connection. That is, I don't buy into any of the "diabolical Ganu" theories.

I don't see any problem with the characters being involved in the backstory through the current buzz campaign, but I agree that little or none of this is going to make an appearance in the film. We'll probably learn that Rob is going to work for slusho, there will probably be some news broadcast showing comments from Mr. Yoshida bemoaning the fact that his drilling operations stirred up the beastie, and, of course, we'll have some slight references to the "human interest" material that myspace pages are providing. That's it, though; any more and the film becomes more of a comic book than a monster movie and I didn't read into anything JJA said that that was what he intended. That may well be how the backstory/ARG turns out, but as for the film itself, my money is on a rampaging mother of all monsters whose origin no one is going to be quite sure about. Ganu might know, but if he's in the film for more than five minutes I'll be very surprised.

At any rate, there's no way that we will learn much about the what, where, and how of the monster before the release of the movie. That would be self-defeating on the part of Bad Robot.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:41 am
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Darkurth2000
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 		Maybe the drilling accidently wakes up something indeginous (sp?) to the American continent. Something that, in this fictional world, was nasty enough to kill off the dinosaurs a looong time ago. (ala Jamies little statement on her Myspace site). I have been communicating with Beth, Jamie, Lil, and Rob. Rob is big into riddles and lateral thinking FYI. If you can come up with a damn good riddle, he'll answer it pretty quickly...he has mine.

(My best Forrest Gump) "And that's awl I got to saye 'bout that..."

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:27 pm
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Dr. Awkward
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 		Tagruato's secret agenda/motivation...
ParafFun's true purpose and related responsibities...
Thanks for all of the awesome lines from dot to dot Very Happy

So Tagruato is the parent company and all of the subsidiaries play a role
in furthering the ultimate agendas of Ganu, which are:

* To make a$$load$ of money
* And what else - every evil conglomerate has another agenda
besides getting rich...

World domination, ultimate revenge of sorts...it's hard knowin' not knowin' Confused

But it seems safe to assume that they all raise the capital and serve each
other in assisting in the research neccessary to further the common
goal, whatever it may be, without having to absorb the risk associated
with contracting anything out of house.

* Tagruato makes money and ????
* Bold Futura reaches the DSN...
* YMR examines its properties...
* ParafFun escapes my grasp at this time Confused
* And Slusho! brings the good reputation to Tagruato and the DSN.

WTF is ParafFun's responsibility and how does it further the common goal??
What is Tagruato's secret agenda??

Anyone...anyone...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:28 pm
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