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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[META] New Posters who don't want to get flamed - pls read
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jojo
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Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 194

[META] New Posters who don't want to get flamed - pls read

I have noticed a distinct drop in the quality of discussion on these forums in the last few days, which has been disenheartening since there are so many new, exciting things going on.

Please - for your sake and ours - do a thorough search of the website before you post your "new theory". I worked my ass off putting a bunch of stuff on the Despoiler Wiki so that people who were new to the site would not have an excuse for posting questions that have already been discussed ad nauseum. The info is on there - and unlike using the search function here - is relatively organized so that you can easily find it. CloverfieldClues.com has a ton of info and is also very well organized. THUS, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR FAILING TO CHECK WHETHER SOMETHING HAS BEEN DISCUSSED BEFORE YOU POST. You should expect to get yelled at if you completely disregard all of these resources available to you.

While it is great to hear new theories and discussion should be fostered and encouraged, it's incredibly frustrating to those of us who have been following this game to re-hash the same points over and over again. I understand that you may be excited at the "new discovery" and automatically assume that you must be the only one that thought of it so far, but the fact of the matter is that there are thousands of people working on this game. So the chances are that it's probably been discovered and/or discussed already and you really aren't contributing anything new.

If you have something NEW to add to the discussion, that is one thing (for instance, if you just realized that the demon in the 1-18-08 picture is a gargoyle on the Notre Dame and have photographic evidence). But if you just noticed the demon and want to post your discovery, you should expect a good flaming.

Unfortunately, a few people who post dumb things ruin it for all the lurkers who have legitimately good ideas but are afraid to post out of a fear of getting yelled at. Which is a shame.

I've been around this board for a while and, due to all the Wiki research, I think I'm pretty familiar with what has/hasn't been discussed and how to search to find out if it has. Feel free to PM (i.e. private message) me and I'd be happy to tell you -in the nicest way possible- whether something has been discussed before. I think other members of this board who have been around for a while and seem friendly (any volunteers?) would also be willing to help you out in this area in order to avoid this thread clogging.

In other words, if you don't want to get flamed but think you have a new idea, ask me & I'll - fairly and nicely, I promise - let you know if it's already been discussed.

However, this is giving new posters yet another resource to avoid being flamed and to help them contribute to the discussion, so I'm really not going to feel sorry for those of you that continue to get bitched out for posting dumb stuff. You deserve it.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:02 pm
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Kraker
Unfettered

Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 749

I fully support.

Well thought out thread giving good advice to newcomers.

I would not be completely against those who post something like the demon in the picture, since it's not on the first page and can be tough to find with the search function. I get ticked off by the newcomers who say they looked yet there was literally a thread on the exact same thing on the first page.

One thing I advise newcomers to do is to PM rose or someone they deem likely to be helpful about making a topic if they are unsure about it.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:13 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

Well that is one opinion. It is not my opinion and I don't support that way of dealing with other players.

The other way, and my preferred way, is for people to please not flame other people. No one has to reply to any thread, ever. It is a choice.

If someone asks a question you feel is beneath you to answer or you feel that they should have searched, or whatever judgmental attitude you want to bring, please, just don't respond. If you can't be helpful or at least polite, maybe you might think about just not answering. Please.

Or, you could please consider just answering with a simple comment that says this has already been discussed and post a link to that thread. It is pretty simple.

You can see that I am trying to address the level of trolling and flaming by asking people to please not to respond to flamers or trolls.

Because a player started this thread, I am now also asking people to please consider not flaming in the first place. Thanks.

(edited because this sounder angrier than I meant it to be. I'm not angry at anyone. Sorry if it came across that way. )

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:13 pm
Last edited by rose on Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:48 pm; edited 11 times in total
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dalphx
Entrenched


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 801
Location: Partying in Batcave with Lily & Beth!

Re: [META] New Posters who don't want to get flamed - pls read

I will also try to help out! I am not rude ,but do joke around and have fun. After all, a game is meant to be fun. As long as you do not start a new topic on old stuff, people will most likely help you out.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:13 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

Also - there is a general place for questions in the reference section. You can always ask questions there.

Here is the link

I'm not objecting to people having fun. Smile

I'm asking people please to not be mean, to not flame and to not try to control the other players. If someone starts a new thread...so what? Is that the end of the world? Does that make them morons deserving of contempt? I think no, it doesn't.

Thanks guys. Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:17 pm
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casemyo
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Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 289
Location: manbearpig central

you know, it could be a lot worse... anyone ever glanced at the imdb forum for this movie?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:47 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

No I've never read any other forum about this promotion. Just keeping up here is all I can manage. Wink

Seriously though, I think this community here at unfiction has its own standards, norms, whatever you call it. Not that they are written down in any sense more than the simple phrase "Play Nice."
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:50 pm
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Uninvited
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Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 112

The "new posters" part, got me excited Sad
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:50 pm
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casemyo
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Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 289
Location: manbearpig central

Uninvited wrote:
The "new posters" part, got me excited Sad


Laughing Laughing

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:54 pm
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CloverfieldClues.com
Entrenched


Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 757

JoJo, this is a lost cause.

The first sticky post on the front page is: Forum Rules and Guidelines - READ THIS BEFORE POSTING

Quote:
If people keep rushing in and post, the forum will soon be completely filled with double (triple, quadruple...) posts, making it almost impossible to find an answer you are looking for. So please take some time to make yourself familiar with the following:

* Please, please, please, Search the forums before posting, as you may well be asking a question or posting information that has already been posted. If so, don't post a new thread; add it to the already existing one(s)
* If you do create a new thread, tag it so that it reflects its content, i.e. [QUESTION], [UPDATE], [NEW], [PUZZLE], etc. (see below)*
* Keep discussion of the same subject(s) in the same thread
* Be nice. See the Unfiction Terms of Services for a broader definition


But it is clear these rules are not read by anyone a lot of people.

New people should post their comments in existing threads... NOT create a new "topic" to ask a question... ESPECIALLY when there is already a thread on the topic on the first page.

I don't expect everyone anyone to do a search every time they want to post a comment, because they might have repeated someone else's idea. However, if you are going to start a new "topic", at least look at the first page if you can't figure out how the search works (It's a wonder Google is still in business.)

If it were up to me, you would have to have a certain number of posts before you could create your own topics. Would this discourage discussion? No, it would encourage people to post into existing threads, instead of creating a new one every time something new pops in their head.


IMO, this has all gotten worse since the "Don't Lock, Don't Remove" policy was instituted. If topics were locked and/or removed more willingly by the admins, there would be less problems, and LESS need to lock or remove.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:22 pm
Last edited by CloverfieldClues.com on Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

Quote:
But it is clear these rules are not read by anyone OR enforced


I'm not sure I agree with this blanket statement. I know many new players who read the rules carefully and try to follow them. I don't think that those guidelines were meant to be "enforced" by more than people setting examples for the other players. Simply posting a link to the existing thread works. People learn. But I respect your opinion.

Quote:
If it were up to me, you would have to have a certain number of posts before you could create your own topics. Would this discourage discussion? No, it would encourage people to post into existing threads, instead of creating a new one every time something new pops in their head.

IMO, this has all gotten worse since the "Don't Lock, Don't Remove" policy was instituted. If topics were locked and/or removed more willingly by the admins, there would be less problems, and LESS need to lock or remove.



I'm sure you can take this up with the site admins if you want. I've tried to explain my imperfect approach in following the site admins' concept of the collaborative process at work here at unfiction. There is definite, careful and deliberate thinking behind this approach, it isn't based on a random whim.

Oh and just to clarify, as far as I know, it was never unfiction policy to delete posts.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:30 pm
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Euchre
uF Game Warden


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 3342

There is already a way...

We have at our disposal a relatively polite, accepted, and if done properly even FUN way (for all parties) to admonish new members to post and create threads in a more effective manner.

It's called trouting.

Rose makes the point that you should tell them it has been discussed, and give them a link to the thread where it has been discussed. What I'd suggest we add to this is that we ask that they repost what they started the thread with in the linked thread. This will push that other potentially buried thread back up, and if their input is in any way new and useful to the existing thread, it'll encourage renewed activity there.

Now that said, let's go fishing!
Trout
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:19 pm
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jojo
Decorated


Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 194

Let me clarify: I am not condoing flaming. I don't do it. When people ask questions, I politely tell them what they're missing and/or send a link. I agree with the overall policy of encouraging participation and discussion.

But my point is that the people that get flamed are far from innocent, helpless victims. There is some element of egomania/laziness in assuming that you've figured out something that 3,000 others couldn't and that you're so important that you can't be bothered to use the multitude of resources available at your disposal to determine whether it's something new or not. Particularly when the same parties tend to do it over and over again. It detracts from the open discussion because (a) it clogs up the threads with useless posts and (b) requires someone to spend time hunting for the information the trout poster is missing, rather than analyzing clues.

Yes, it may be futile, but there's got to be a way to resolve this issue amicably, which was what I was trying to do. Perhaps I didn't clearly communicate this, but I'm not trying to generate any sort of flame war or be hostile towards newbies, I am trying to help them out.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:25 pm
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Giskard
Sassypants


Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 2066
Location: Chicago

I understand your frustration Jojo, and you've been doing good work trying to guide and help along new people, but with something like Cloverfield, which attracts so many, many different folks, it is very hard to keep things structured and organised as well as you would sometimes wish.

We deliberately do not apply lockdown/smackdown tactics as mods & admins, because the atmosphere that that creates is potentially even worse. In an ideal world, everyone coming in here would read the posting guidelines before anything else, and will [search] everytime before they post, but realistically, we know that that just isn't happening.

We hope that people here will follow the good examples that others set. If they don't, we might address that issue with them (or they might just leave by themselves), if they do then, yay, it makes these forums a better place!

Keep up the good work...
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:24 pm
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buildingblock
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Joined: 04 Oct 2007
Posts: 75

lol maybe the monster is a gargoyle and the movie will turn out to be a spin-off of the 90's animated cartoon 'gargoyles'. Laughing

I think its necessary we keep bumping this thread so newbies see it, at least for a while. All in all a good idea jo jo! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:35 pm
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