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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » Old News & Rumors
Red Monday -- new game?
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Satire
Veteran


Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 75
Location: Eugene/Portland/Seattle

Realism Concerns

I'm also a little put off by the whole real (currently living) individuals thing. Realism is great and all, but unless this whole business shapes up to be us barking up the wrong tree to reveal the actual perpetrator it just strikes me as a bit off-putting.

I don't get any enjoyment out of researching actual people, and I don't think it adds anything to the game by using them (in fact, it must make it more difficult for the PM to regulate the information flow, or just easier to not have to make more content). The subject matter is already sensitive, and it does raise concerns like the ones above if we're poking around the internet for nuclear weapon info.

The other point of realism I've got qualms with is the direct references to this forum. It's one thing for the PM to read it and make note, but another entirely to quote it and treat it as an in-game resource. It confuses things, at best. How can this be read by the characters, referenced by the characters, and simultaneously have people bantering about the PM and how it's a game? Is it against the rules? No. Just frowned upon.

I noticed that no one has posted JC's full name (or the email it came from). That seems like useful game information, yet no one put it here. Why? My guess is because players have begun to treat this forum as in-game thanks to the references by the PM. That works against everyone's interests: our own in sharing information to come to informed conclusions, the forums' to provide a place for people to openly discuss ARGs, and the PM's as it creates a higher barrier to entry if someone can't sit down here and find all the information they need.

If the PM wanted a forum where people could discuss the content, in-game, we should have been provided one. The UnFiction forum isn't meant for that purpose.

That said, I do really like the codes and the puzzle bits, but the actual ties to reality aren't my bag.

Other people have thoughts?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:35 pm
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Autumnn
Boot

Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 67

Just a side not on the extra letters within the twitter ciphers, Rail fence adds extra letters to fill in an extra space or two if the encoded message doesn't fully fill up the 3 letter "rail." I doubt they have any relevance if he is using an applet to cypher them (if by hand, then that would be another story I guess).

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:23 pm
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Nereus_Theophilus
Unfettered


Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 456
Location: Canada

Re: Realism Concerns

Satire wrote:
I'm also a little put off by the whole real (currently living) individuals thing. Realism is great and all, but unless this whole business shapes up to be us barking up the wrong tree to reveal the actual perpetrator it just strikes me as a bit off-putting.

I don't get any enjoyment out of researching actual people, and I don't think it adds anything to the game by using them (in fact, it must make it more difficult for the PM to regulate the information flow, or just easier to not have to make more content). The subject matter is already sensitive, and it does raise concerns like the ones above if we're poking around the internet for nuclear weapon info.

The other point of realism I've got qualms with is the direct references to this forum. It's one thing for the PM to read it and make note, but another entirely to quote it and treat it as an in-game resource. It confuses things, at best. How can this be read by the characters, referenced by the characters, and simultaneously have people bantering about the PM and how it's a game? Is it against the rules? No. Just frowned upon.

I noticed that no one has posted JC's full name (or the email it came from). That seems like useful game information, yet no one put it here. Why? My guess is because players have begun to treat this forum as in-game thanks to the references by the PM. That works against everyone's interests: our own in sharing information to come to informed conclusions, the forums' to provide a place for people to openly discuss ARGs, and the PM's as it creates a higher barrier to entry if someone can't sit down here and find all the information they need.

If the PM wanted a forum where people could discuss the content, in-game, we should have been provided one. The UnFiction forum isn't meant for that purpose.

That said, I do really like the codes and the puzzle bits, but the actual ties to reality aren't my bag.

Other people have thoughts?


Here is what I am thinking. This forum is very easily traceable through Google and others like. If this person, real or fake, was smart enough to use such this forum would come up. There are ways and forums that you can use to go around this and a lot of them are even free. If you want a privet forum to talk I would suggest looking for one. Then PM'ing it to "the" Dark Knight and getting him to email it to the rest of us.

Secondly I do not mind doing the research, the way it is being presented to us. Because I am at work and an IP trace back would just tell you where I work and that is all. Also if the FBI was to start tracking you because of what you are searching for. They would notice that you are doing it for what we are led to believe, may be a game. Though with the reality of the situation it could very well be a cover operation using gamers to do research. Razz

That is my two or three cents.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:37 pm
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

Re: Realism Concerns

Satire wrote:
Other people have thoughts?


Only that for someone with so few posts, you have a very good grasp of why PMs that don't understand the concepts you outline do a great disservice to the genre.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:43 pm
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wkelly42
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Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 147

I think part of the problem may be that we've got a PM who isn't really familiar with the genre, outside of it's potential as a marketing plan.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:55 pm
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redct
Entrenched


Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1233

Quote:
I think part of the problem may be that we've got a PM who isn't really familiar with the genre, outside of it's potential as a marketing plan.


I wouldn't say that's totally true. I do agree (we all do) that it can be used as a marketing plan, but it seems this PM is going a bit farther.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:59 pm
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Darren Knight
Unfettered


Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 494
Location: Parsippany, New Jersey

I think that he is more or less thinking outside of the box. Being able to google us, though not preferable in my opinion, is what a hacker would be able to do. Therefore the character JC (thats right im not using his real name because it is longer to type) should and would at least google us.

Do I like that he is able to look st the converstaions and use it in-game, no. but until he reads this, which he will we wont know whether he will keep going in this direction.

To why im actually posting, is anyone here under the Alias of groovewaffle (a miss Veatch). If so PM me. nothing for anyone to worry about, JC just wanted to know wheter you were on the team.

-Im working on the email but I am also on another 2 ARGs so Im sort of split up mentally (not to mention college). So sorry if im not posting as much. However, continue to keep me updated on whatever list or forums

-Darren
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:52 pm
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Misswidder10
Decorated


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 177
Location: Petaluma,California

It is not like these "characters" aren't real people... they ARE real people. Not only that but theses "characters" include people who are on the Federal Terrorist watch lists through the C.I.A. and F.B.I. THAT IS REALLY SCARY..

I don't want men in black suits kicking down my door in the middle of the night. It is a little disturbing also because I am a military wife..

The Government has been known from time to time ..to set up operations that utilize civilian intelligence.. making it look like something else when it is actually government driven...

If this is the case then I better get frickin paid for this crap!!!

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:55 pm
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Nereus_Theophilus
Unfettered


Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 456
Location: Canada

Misswidder10 wrote:
It is not like these "characters" aren't real people... they ARE real people. Not only that but theses "characters" include people who are on the Federal Terrorist watch lists through the C.I.A. and F.B.I. THAT IS REALLY SCARY..

I don't want men in black suits kicking down my door in the middle of the night. It is a little disturbing also because I am a military wife..

The Government has been known from time to time ..to set up operations that utilize civilian intelligence.. making it look like something else when it is actually government driven...

If this is the case then I better get frickin paid for this crap!!!


I agree. If this is a real op in disguise and a arg then, Give me money.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:17 am
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Kortheal
Boot

Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 53

Money would be nice, but if it IS a government op, you'd have to think about the venue they are using. Gamers...who are limited by legalities. Our research is based solely on what's prensented to us, and PUBLIC websites that ANYBODY can access. If the people we are researching are on public sites than I'm positive the government knows about the sites already. The only reason I know that it's a game is the fact that the government is the law, therefore their teams are highly trained cryptographers, hackers, spies, and other means of intel. When you REALLY think about it, I don't think very many people on Unfic are gonna start hacking pakistani mainframes to gather sensitive information. If this was a government op, we wouldn't be needed at all. If it is, than I rest assured knowing the fact that, DUH! It's the government! It's been WEEKS that we've been OPENLY researching and discussing this topic. They haven't bust down anybody's door yet because they probably already know a bunch of folks are looking at public sites on sensitive folks. There is nothing on the internet that the Pakistanis and the US Government doesn't know or can't easily find out.

...it's a game guys...if you REALLY sit down and think about it...JC's methods would be considered very risky and VERY reckless if he were using open emails to contact people. Simma down now yall...it's just a game.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:35 am
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Digital Entity
Boot

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 22

Anything new?

Anyone heard anything new?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:23 am
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Digital Entity
Boot

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 22

Someone on BTS said...

"The IP address of the server (203.22.204.142) is owned by Globatc.om out of Studio City, California.

The site sits on a server with more than 1100 other sites.

I'm pretty sure it's a viral marketing ploy."

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:13 pm
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Degausser
Boot


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 48
Location: The Static Cult

To play devil's advocate, I would note the ways he has chosen to use his access to the forum have been relatively unintrusive, and even essential in places (such as the guidance from the Twitter account). I would also disagree that his name is important information. We take our direction from JC, and there's no real reason for us to begin investigating him just yet. If the PM's vision includes further blurring the line between game and reality, that's perfectly fine in and of itself, and clearly increases the TINAG factor (just look at the wild speculation taking place). Should the game take a direction that requires us to discuss prohibited topics, then perhaps it will become a problem, but for the moment the prohibition isn't really doing any tangible harm. It is dangerous territory he treads in, but not bad territory, yet. I think the PM just needs to be careful where he takes this, lest the 4th wall erode to the point of collapse.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:21 pm
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Misswidder10
Decorated


Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 177
Location: Petaluma,California

It is still a bit nerve racking if you ask me..

im gonna keep playing though
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:29 pm
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Digital Entity
Boot

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 22

 

The last message on Twitter is..

gb. jerekmysbi. gcekyibrb. xdyigqioankjgqcignjqslozlgtqd. jkawjgyyaqbkdnyq 11:07 AM October 18, 2007 from web

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
fixing stupid computer problems at the embassy.this is a complete waste of my time.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:54 pm
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