unforum

[Kable]

I'm sorry

[Sythys]

Re: Email from Jane

[mgelles]

It's funny how everything seems to connect even though it might not be expressly meant to This all reminds me of what I said to 2D about the need to evaluate things with your own knowledge, experience and instinct rather than accept what we're told blindly. I still stand by that because I think it helps in the fight against those who derail us., but I also understand 2D's positions much better that wouldn't it be nice if we could not do that and just accept art for what it is and its right to exist but even there exists the voices that try to shape our opinion. It is that that I refuse to let happen. But I do not believe that one can find the answers themselves and it is in sharing our ideas that we find our stength. The Korporation may try to divide us. It is not necessary nor possible nor good that we think with one mind, but let us not dwell in shadows where the korp feeds but bring our disagreements, doubt and pain into the light. We shall be vigilant together. We must be conscious of their messages and not doubt that we can find the truth.
Michelle

[anonymousloli]

Re: Email from Jane

[Silent|away]

Sythys, you gotta remember that this is an ARG, and that the journey that the PMs want to push us towards is really to push their own agenda, their own beliefs. If you want to understand this ARG, you have to understand what message the Cards are saying. Disagree with it, okay. But you have to let them speak first.

The Korp is a sterotype, supposed to be seen as evil so that the Cards bee seen as good. There are utterly no redeemable aspects in the Korp, but there is also nothing that makes it seem that the Korp is EVIL. All we learnt is that the Cards hate the Korp (oh gee), and that the Cards had their warehouse burnt down (why...and how does a burnt warehouse stops a trailhead). But the metagame makes it obivous the PMs/Cards control the Korp, and steer it to make us hate it, but my own inner bias doesn't make me hate it at all.

[Wandering Star]

You fail to see why the Korporation is evil?

To tie-in the MS bulletin that 2H posted last night, let me ask you this:

Did you recognize why the firemen were evil in Fahrenheit 451? Yes, the author created those characters too, just like he created the likeable Clarisse. Does that mean we're supposed to disregard the fact that they were the villains? Just because good and evil come from the same source doesn't mean the evil isn't evil and the good isn't good.

I mean, if you want to get right down to it, Darth Vader was only James Earl Jones' voice and David Prowse in a costume. We can intellectualize anything to death and suck the fun out of everything if we want to badly enough. But why would we?

From what I remember being said, the warehouse that was burned down had information and art that was to be used for Silverladder. That makes perfect sense to me as to why the Korp would want to do that in order to attempt to sabotage the whole thing.


Wandering*

[Silent]

Wandering Star, you fail to realize one thing: Why are the Korp 'evil'?

All we are told is that the Korp is evil. By the Cards. We are also told that they burnt down a warehouse, because they are evil. We are told that the Korp are composed of terrible beings who lost everything, who should be ignored and not listened to, to say "la la la" in our ears. The only thing that really is there is the burning down of the warehouse, but that just sound like the PMs' way of saying, "Look, they did something totally unjustified, oh noes, they're evil!"

But I'm not compelled to scream at Korp for that crime, as I still see no reason why they are evil. If the Korp are evil, it's not justified evil, it's not evil that you can relate to. It's a sterotypical evil, where you just wear a black cape and then people are supposed to boo at you, and think that someone who's riding in to kill the guy with the black cape as good.

Star Wars is a space opera, so it can afford to have sterotyped evil (even then, people scream at that, look at the Case For The Empire to realize how people could sympathize with the Empire and hate the Rebels).

The firefighters in Fahrenheit 451 had a reason for doing what they did. People didn't want books anymore, their society hated how the books does not provide instant gratification, how the books protray different and conflicting ideas that makes people upset. Society created the firefighters to stop books because society hated the books, and they wanted to create a uniform society, a society devoted to instant pleasure, and not to reading. You may hate why they do it, but the firefighters themselves thought it was okay, as well as most of society. They shared different values, instead of caring about knowledge about the truth, they cared about pleasure and "carpe diem". They may be seen as evil (you do and so could I), but you can understand why they are evil, and some could sympathize, and maybe even agree with them.

If the Korp had something similar to that track, a real reason why they are doing what they are doing, then people may also agree with them, even defect to them. And that's NOT what the Cards want, the Cards want us to sympathize with them, they don't want the Korp to have any ally whatsoever. That's why I point to the PMs' control over the Korp, the PMs are purposely trying to demonize the Korp, so that people listen to the PMs. That's okay for space opera, but it's not okay for a game that is trying to "broaden your horizions".

(My horizions isn't broadned if you want to railroad me to believe what you believe.)

[Wandering Star]

"but it's not okay for a game that is trying to "broaden your horizions"

Then why are you here? Why stick around? If it's that bad, why participate? I completely fail to understand that. Use your freedom of choice, and choose something that makes more sense to you. I have never been able to grasp why people will say how horrible something is (job, relationship, living environment, etc.) and not use their power to leave. I certainly wouldn't want to participate in something I found trite.

If I sit down and watch a new sitcom on NBC and it's terrible, do I tune in next week? No. I watch something else. I think that's fairly simple to grasp. If this is so transparent and weak and flawed or whatever, why are you here?

The time frame the PMs laid out shows that this is going to go for a year. That's an awful long ARG. Things are happening in one week segment. Why shouldn't we assume that this will be slow to develop? Of course the Korp doesn't have much to show yet. This ARG just started eighteen days ago. What are you expecting? How much is this costing us? Did they charge us admission at the door?

Granted, I have issues with some of this. I've said before, the HTML looks like a chimp did it. I wish there was more interaction BETWEEN characters (not between characters and players). The Aces seem to have little control over (some of) the deuces. One of the characters was rather rude. I wish the Korp would do something too.

But for free? I'll take it. It's something I can tune into a few times a week and then spend the rest of my time doing something else. If it starts to annoy or bore me, I'm outta here.

No one is forcing you to watch. No one is "railroading" you into believing anything. No one has you tied to a chair with a gun to your head. If you don't like what's on, change the channel.


Wandering*

[Silent|away]

[Wandering Star]

I think everyone will be able to make up their own mind whether or not they're disappointed. When they do, they'll take it up with the deck, or leave. I respect your right to your opinion, but I don't see why adults who can make up their own minds need to be "warned" about a game that they're not spending money on. If it was "pay to play," you'd be doing people a service. To me, it comes across as simply criticism for the sake of criticism. Apparently you missed 2D's week or didn't get the message.

We'll agree to disagree.

Wandering*

[anonymousloli]

Why don't we stop arguing about the Korporation? You guys are feeding the wrong wolf. Both of you are. Arguing is only placing energy where it doesn't need to be.

If you don't like the Korp, then fine, ignore them. If you want to work for the Korp, then fine, do that, I won't hold it against you. If you want to infiltrate the Korp, then fine, do so.

Jonah told me that I wasn't being told by the cards to stop infiltrating because I have free will. So do all of you. Make your own choices and please just allow others to do the same.

[mgelles]

I actually don't mind the conversation. Someone with a differing opinion, has the right to be here express themselves and be treated with respect. i actually agree with silent on his basic premise though I disagree with some of his argument and rationale on many levels. I agree with him that we shouldn't automatically accept the Deck as purveyors of the truth. However, I disagree with your assumption that that's what the PM's or the deck intend us to do and I take as my evidence my conversation with 2D whom I quite heartily disagreed with but who treated me with respect in every way. I told him I was enjoying our discussion immensely and he said that was better than having me agree with him.

i think that we can take a cue from 2D and welcome disagreement in the course of discussion while treating each other with respect. I find it genuinely sad that Silent doesnt consider himself a passanger because he is suspicious of the deck and wants to give the Korp the benefit of the doubt in some ways. A passanger is a player of this game not one who subscribes to a certain belief set. You are a player and welcome here. If in fact you're argument by your examples is that we are often a willing party and perpetuator of narrow minded thinking instead of having it foisted upon us by an outside evil entity I'm fairly certain Sythys already agrees with you http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22302&start=15

My take is this. Actions can be evil. There can be evil people as well, but more often than not they aren't. I'll use the two examples that have been used here the empire in star Wars and the firefighters from Ferenheit 451. I contend that the firefighters themselves were not evil nor the run of the mil citizen in support of the Galactic Empire. However, that doesn't make bookburning or many of the acts commited by the empire justified or right. It means people will overlook injustices out of fear ignorance particularly if the perpetrating entities feed basic needs and desires so the fact that bookburning was done out of public desire should be the wake up call that we should take a nice hard look at a society that could condone such an act.

I know people would probably have prefferred i not continue the trea, but I think it's important. i truly believe in the desire of the PM's to challenge our ways of thinking and that sometimes learning is not easy. For true learning to occur everyone must have a voice. Silent, i would suggest that the very fact we're having this conversation is proof that it can be a broadening well rounded experience, regardless of who intended what.

Michelle

[waitress#2]

There is finally an update on korporation.net

[Salsaman1991]

Awww....terminated. So cute! I'm beginning to wonder just what the hell they're producing in there. Prolly italian style fruit cake. Mmmm....I love you pannettone.....

Me wantz korp action T_T Maybe they're just the easy going farmer type of guys, raising Mudkips in the swamps of Louisianna. It makes sense, kinda...or...not...

[Guest]

Everybody should go visit korporation website as soon as possible.
There is something you should see..