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[WF][Trailhead] Whitechapel Foundation: Open Cases
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mortality
Unfettered


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 428

 		Good work on identifying that site.

What's weird is that it was facing south. The marks looked like the outline of an object with the same shape as the diagram. Like a stencil as opposed to being scorched in the exact shape.

So it looks like we have about a week to figure out which location will be used for the final ritual and a course of action.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:01 pm
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casablanca
Boot

Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 39

 		The rituals and a New Years post from Ethan
mortality wrote:
What's weird is that it was facing south. The marks looked like the outline of an object with the same shape as the diagram. Like a stencil as opposed to being scorched in the exact shape.


I think the fact that the longer leg points South is another hint to how the figure should be oriented. I still think that the 1st ritual was at Cherry St., the 2nd was at Sandra's location and the 3rd will be to the West following the diagram closer to Sandra's location.

What Jade saw at Cherry St. was very close to what Sandra described seeing by her house.

Sandra wrote
Quote:
It is right in the middle of the road,
of 61st avenue, and it looks like an outline of the metal thing that I
saw. Kind of like the outline you would get if you spray painted
something and then moved it away, if you understand what I mean. The
outline is dark and sooty looking.


Also, Ethan posted a long post at his personal blog last night. http://ethangrant.wordpress.com/2007/12/31/destruction/ It's mostly a New Years message, but it is also looks like he is speaking for the PM's on a couple points. Cool

I count 2 more possible references to the Lord of the Rings in this post along with the title being another of The Endless from Sandman.

Does anyone know who Heather is? I don't remember seeing her name before.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:02 pm
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mortality
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 428

 		Re: The rituals and a New Years post from Ethan
Heather left comments at Ethan's blog, so I'd guess she's a friend.

casablanca wrote:
I think the fact that the longer leg points South is another hint to how the figure should be oriented. I still think that the 1st ritual was at Cherry St., the 2nd was at Sandra's location and the 3rd will be to the West following the diagram closer to Sandra's location.


I agree with your ordering of events: #1 at Cherry and #2 at Pine. (ETA2: I may need to watch Jade's footage again, tho, because from what I remember him saying, it sounded like the stencil might be more recent.)

But the stencil's orientation on the ground doesn't make sense to me if it indicates how to plot the final location. One would think that the stencils should form a triangle if we could extend lines connecting them. So they ought to look something like one of these:

/|-Pine
\|-Cherry

|\-Pine
|/-Cherry

But instead the stencil at Cherry shows one leg pointing south and one angling southwest. And Jade hasn't gone to Pine yet.
/|-Cherry

I see the Lord of the Rings references, too, so identifying that song from the trailer looks like a good spot. I don't have any idea what they're getting at with those, tho.

Anyone watch the test video Jade made? What song is in the background?

ETA: I'd been thinking the Lord of the Rings stuff has to do with the ritual from 0702, mostly since 0702 seems most similar in concept and because the video with the LotR song featured the 0702 cipher. But Ethan's references to the movie seem to be tied to the deadline with 0701.

So some speculation...the most obvious inference to draw is that MSG1 is one of the songs/poems Tolkien used. If not from one of the movies, then from one of the books; maybe even The Hobbit. The poem about the rings is 8 lines, just like MSG1, but I can't see how the cipher could resolve to the plaintext.

Quote:
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne,
In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.


Nor do I see how it would link to "the wise king was only three" or the three "kings" of MSG3. Kind of a stretch to call Sauron "the executed one" even though Sauron did seal his/its own fate by creating the ring.

If 0701 does tie to Tolkien, then it's pretty obvious this is a prank. Maybe an initiation by one of his co-workers? Seems like it had to be an inside job, anyway, given that the perp placed MSG4 while avoiding the security cameras.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:38 am
Last edited by mortality on Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:52 am; edited 2 times in total
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dashcat
Entrenched


Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 816
Location: Under the bed

 		I saw that Ethan was asking us to work on letter 1 of 0701, the XXXX code. I tried looking for ciphers that look like that. I didn't find anything.

The fact that LotR comes up again in the same post as the xxxx code made me think maybe it was one of the poems or songs from the LotR books. I looked at all of them, or I think I did. I didn't find anything with the same pattern. I also looked at some alchemical poetry and verse but nothing there either.

I really think there's a clue to solving this in one of Ethan's posts but I don't see it.

ETA
I was writing my post and didn't notice that Mortality had edited his.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:21 am
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mortality
Unfettered


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 428

 		Great minds, dash, great minds... Smile

Casa, there's one other possibility for the location. If the rituals plot out a triangle, the last location is where the two lines would intersect if you extended them beyond the spots you marked on the map. Somewhere around the intersection of 37th or 38th Ave and 28th St.

Map

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:52 am
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Sylvia
I Have No Life

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 2062

 		email from ethan
I'm posting this since no one else seems to be. I don't following this much anymore, so I don't know if you guys have gotten it or not.
Quote:
OC:0702 - Video from the Cherry Street location
Ethan Grant
3:04 PM (16 hours ago)

Distribution:
Registered members of the Whitechapel Foundation's Open Cases community

Reference:
Open Case OC:0702. ( http://whitechapelfoundation.org/opencases/?p=3 )
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Everyone,

We hope you have all had a happy and safe holiday season.

Sorry for not getting this notice out sooner, but it completely slipped my mind after adding it to the Supplemental page for this case. I know some of you have seen this already, but for those who have not here is the link to the video that Jade Macalla shot at the Cherry Street location in St. Petersburg, Florida.

http://jadeswfnotes.blip.tv/file/569900

I'm sure you'll want to draw your own conclusions, but it does appear that an event took place at Cherry Street. I anticipate the Foundation will have some feedback on what as developed thus far, but I'm sure they would also be interested in any additional thoughts you may have.

Very best regards,

Ethan Grant
Associate Researcher
The Whitechapel Foundation

ethanSPLATwhitechapelfoundation.org
www.whitechapelfoundation.org


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:18 am
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Sylvia
I Have No Life

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 2062

 		while I'm here
While I'm here, I will post something else I've noticed. I don't expect any of you to pay any attention to it because everything I've said in the past has been ignored in some form or fashion.

It's was clear to me that from the following that the number 23 might have something to do with the odd messages that WCF was receiving and confirmed by Ethan: http://whitechapelfoundation.org/opencases/?page_id=8
Quote:
From "Sylvia" via comment; 12/02/07 - 21:57

Sylvia wrote:
"…I also had this observation:

If we go with "THE WISE KING WAS ONLY THREE" or some variation of that. There is exactly 23 letters. And if we include the period on the triangle then there is exactly 23 letters/characters. Has to mean something.

THEWISEKINGWASONLYTHREE
ENLILW.WALLACESUREUSAHA <– the way it would be going around the triangle starting at the E in Enlil.

What do you guys think?…"


Reply to "Sylvia" by Ethan Grant via this note; 12/03/07 - 14:25

Ethan wrote:
This was a very interesting observation, and it was a topic of much conversation during the Foundation's review meeting this morning.

We agree that IF (and we are still undecided on this point) the correct solve for MSG2 is 'THE WISE KING WAS ONLY THREE' then it is very likely that '23′ is significant to this case. Especially when one considers that these messages were labeled '2′ and '3′ respectively. But we also feel that if this is proven to be the case, then the prominence of the number '23′ may point to a more 'mundane' origin for these messages. Possible connections could be the recent motion picture by that name, a spin off of the Illuminatus! trilogy, the Oakhurst kidnapping hoax, or any number of other pop culture references.

It is interesting to note that for the innumerable references to "23″ in western pop culture, it almost never shows up it any of our research into the legitimate esoteric traditions. Regardless, we should keep an eye on this point.


I want to point out the odd quote marks Ethan used for the numbers 2, 3 and 23. I will have to show this by removing the & so it will show up as code and not the character. but if you look closely at the link I gave above and in it's source you will be able to see it for yourself. Not that I'm saying that it means anything but that it's odd. Notice that the word "mudane" and other quoted words on the page have the normal expected quote marks but the 2, 3 and 23 are different. Also notice a reply to mort from Ethan a few post up from this one on the same page, the 2 in it also has the strange quotes around it. I will use the color green for the unusual code used for the 2, 3, and 23 and leave the expected in default font color. I will also underline to make it easier to read.
Quote:
#8220; Sylvia #8221;
#8216; THE WISE KING WAS ONLY THREE #8217;
likely that #8216; 23 #8242; is significant
#8216; 2 #8242; and #8216; 3 #8242;
the prominence of the number #8216; 23 #8242;
a more #8216; mundane #8217; origin
references to #8220; 23 #8243;


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:39 am
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casablanca
Boot

Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 39

 		OC:0701 - MSG1
mortality wrote:


So some speculation...the most obvious inference to draw is that MSG1 is one of the songs/poems Tolkien used. If not from one of the movies, then from one of the books; maybe even The Hobbit. The poem about the rings is 8 lines, just like MSG1, but I can't see how the cipher could resolve to the plaintext.

Quote:
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne,
In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.


Nor do I see how it would link to "the wise king was only three" or the three "kings" of MSG3. Kind of a stretch to call Sauron "the executed one" even though Sauron did seal his/its own fate by creating the ring.

If 0701 does tie to Tolkien, then it's pretty obvious this is a prank. Maybe an initiation by one of his co-workers? Seems like it had to be an inside job, anyway, given that the perp placed MSG4 while avoiding the security cameras.



OMG, Mortality, I think you got it! Worshippy Not sure if I should spoiler this, so I will just to be safe.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

The Xs in MSG1 correspond to words, not to individual letters that make up a cipher. It was the hyphens that tipped me off, then I realized the capital Xs corresponded to capital words in the poem. There are a couple differences with the capitalization in the version that Mortality posted, but I checked online and there is at least one other version that matches perfectly. I'm at work so I don't have access to one of the actual books to see how it is written there.

Note 2 for MSG1 on the web site says "2) The pencil lines under certain parts on the content of the letter were not added by the Foundation, they were already on the letter and are assumed to be related to the content."

So if you take just those words you get

One Ring to rule them all,
One Ring to bring them all and bind them

The #s all equal the word "ring" or "rings". So I think the last part says

The Ring was not a Ring.


It looks like everything matches up, but please let me know if it looks like I got something wrong.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:16 am
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Sylvia
I Have No Life

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 2062

 		continue of above spec
I'll let you all do the research yourselves:

Vigintitriplicity
number 23
prominence of the number 23
23 numerology
number 23 alchemy
number 23 frequency enigma
number 23 Illuminate
number 23 Aleister Crowley

That should be enough, I think.

This is what I see, but have not really worked on it to see if there is anything to it:

Code:

0) W H I T E C H A P E L F O U N D A T I O N O C
2) T H R E E K I N G O N L Y W A S T H E W I S E
3) W A L L A C E S U R E U S A H A E N L I L W *
1) T H E N U M B E R W A S N O T A N U M B E R *
4) E X C E E D U N T O T H E E C O N F U S I O N
5) A B E E C H W E L I T P L Y M Y T O W N R O T


note I use an * to represent a period (.) as it doesn't show up good in code tags.

Each has exactly 23 letters/characters. number 4 could have other possibilities but the one I used is the best I found so far. Also I used the words for "The wise king was only three" in the order they were on the puzzle not the way I originally reordered it to make a coherent sentence.

Hope this helps, don't mean to confuse. But thought you might appreciate a different angel on the matter.

This is not a solution, to the entire puzzle but it's a beginning.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:17 am
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mortality
Unfettered


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 428

 		Re: OC:0701 - MSG1
Sylvia, you seem incredibly familiar with aspects of 23. That probably makes you the best suited to figuring out and explaining how it applies.

casablanca wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):

The Xs in MSG1 correspond to words, not to individual letters that make up a cipher. It was the hyphens that tipped me off, then I realized the capital Xs corresponded to capital words in the poem. There are a couple differences with the capitalization in the version that Mortality posted, but I checked online and there is at least one other version that matches perfectly. I'm at work so I don't have access to one of the actual books to see how it is written there.

Note 2 for MSG1 on the web site says "2) The pencil lines under certain parts on the content of the letter were not added by the Foundation, they were already on the letter and are assumed to be related to the content."

So if you take just those words you get

One Ring to rule them all,
One Ring to bring them all and bind them

The #s all equal the word "ring" or "rings". So I think the last part says

The Ring was not a Ring.


It looks like everything matches up, but please let me know if it looks like I got something wrong.


Sheesh. Way to take an idea and run with it. Why not email that to Ethan yourself? Great work putting everything together.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:02 pm
Last edited by mortality on Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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casablanca
Boot

Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 39

 		Re: OC:0701 - MSG1
mortality wrote:
Sheesh. Way to take an idea and run with it. Why not email that to Ethan yourself?


I hope I didn't step on any toes with that, still not sure of some of the etiquette here. Embarassed Question I know I had been looking at MSG1 as a cipher and getting nowhere, then when I saw your comment and the poem it was just sort of there. Who knows if it is right. And still no idea how it might relate to the other messages.

I went ahead and sent the info to Ethan. We'll see what he says.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:04 pm
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mortality
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 428

 		Whoops. Guess that came out wrong.

I was totally impressed, actually. Awesome work! Be proud and take credit. Smile

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:06 pm
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dashcat
Entrenched


Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 816
Location: Under the bed

 		Mortality wrote

Quote:
Anyone watch the test video Jade made? What song is in the background?


Into The West is the song on the Test video that Jade made. I see now that you thought Into The West was the music on the trailer that was made for the Whitechapel Foundation.


Sylvia, you always have great ideas and you solve a lot of stuff so please don't even consider not playing this.

Great work Casa on seeing something that I missed entirely Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:01 pm
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mortality
Unfettered


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 428

 		0701
dashcat wrote:
Mortality wrote

Quote:
Anyone watch the test video Jade made? What song is in the background?


Into The West is the song on the Test video that Jade made. I see now that you thought Into The West was the music on the trailer that was made for the Whitechapel Foundation.

Gotcha.

ETA: Casa, I also forwarded the MSG1 findings to Ethan, just to make sure he got them, since we're facing a deadline with his superiors.

Quote:
Hey Ethan,
Casablanca will probably email you, as well, but given the deadline, I'm sending this just to make sure you get it and can do something with it.

That Lord of the Rings idea seems to have paid off. Dashcat made the original suggestion that we look towards Lord of the Rings, but we had trouble figuring out whether it applied to 0702, since the ritual seemed conceptually similar to Tolkien's stuff, or 0701. Some things clicked into place and the LotR thing seemed to make more sense for 0701 MSG1, since Tolkien used lots of poetry in the books.

MSG1 from 0701 has 8 lines. So does the poem about the rings. I didn't have the book handy, but I found it quoted online:

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne,
In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.


Casablanca did the legwork to make it sync up:

The Xs in MSG1 correspond to words, not to individual letters that make up a cipher. It was the hyphens that tipped me off, then I realized the capital Xs corresponded to capital words in the poem. There are a couple differences with the capitalization in the version that Mortality posted, but I checked online and there is at least one other version that matches perfectly

Note 2 for MSG1 on the web site says "2) The pencil lines under certain parts on the content of the letter were not added by the Foundation, they were already on the letter and are assumed to be related to the content."

So if you take just those words you get

One Ring to rule them all,
One Ring to bring them all and bind them

The #s all equal the word "ring" or "rings". So I think the last part says

The Ring was not a Ring.

If this turns out to be right, then we think it's probably just a prank. In fact, given the fact that the person who left MSG4 evaded WF's CCTVs, we think maybe it was a WF employee trying to have some sport with you. Seems like too big a coincidence for someone to both identify Frank's car and know how to avoid the CCTV sight lines without inside knowledge.

Hope this helps. And seriously, check out the CCTVs from the days when MSG1, MSG2, and MSG3 were left.

Regards,
Mort


Reply:

Quote:
Dear Mort,

Thanks so much! Just wanted to let you know that I had received your E-mail, and a similar note from Casablanca, and forwarded the information on to Christopher. I cannot believe the timing, since Mr. Kennedy will be back in the office tomorrow. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the content is going to help our case, with talk of "ruling" and "binding".

Do you all have any ideas about what this might mean? The sender appears to like books and poems (at least from MSG1 and MSG2). Do you think the messages go together at all? That's a theory we've been throwing around here, that the letters are a series of related messages. If you put the first two together you would get something like:

One Ring to rule them all,
One Ring to bring them all and bind them

The Ring was not a Ring.

The wise king commanded only three

Just don't know.

As for the cameras, they didn't install those until after we received MSG3 (the second note that was slipped through the door). So whoever is sending the notes must have realized that they had been installed and figured out a different way to get the note to a staff member. Could be inside info, or it could just be someone with a lot of time on their hands watching the place.

I'm going to try to talk to Christopher now, I'll follow up later if I can.

Ethan Grant
Associate Researcher
The Whitechapel Foundation

ethanSPLATwhitechapelfoundation.org
www.whitechapelfoundation.org



So we have:
MSG1: One Ring to rule them all,
One Ring to bring them all and bind them

The Ring was not a Ring. [I dunno...a boxing ring is sometimes called the squared circle...only thing that comes to mind. ETA: also ring around the rosie...a ring which is not a ring. And a nursery rhyme with very little meaning.]

MSG2: The wise king commanded only three [rings?]

MSG3: ... [still no breakthrough with Simson Lines or any other way of relating things together]

MSG4: The executed one [sealed its own fate?]

Sylvia, how would the 23 stuff tie any of this together? And what else would you do with Simson lines on MSG3 that hasn't already been tried?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:11 pm
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dashcat
Entrenched


Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 816
Location: Under the bed

 		I don't think 0701 is a prank. And I tend to think it will tie in with 0702 eventually. It just seems kind of weird to have an ARG where part of it turns out to be meaningless. But they could be two seperate cases.

A ring could also be a group of people or a sound.

I really don't know what to make of The Wise King Commanded Only Three

It sounds like a crossword clue
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:01 pm
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