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[LOST] [TRAILHEAD] find815.com
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duncan
Boot

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 43
theShaggy wrote:
Most of these args aren't time-dependant with all Flash assets... people decompile to get the images, it's part of what a lot of the games are about.

Personally, I think that's digging a little too far into things, since Flash by it's nature is interactive and will show you what you need when you need it (unlike, say "Here's just a picture. Go nuts!" and you get into Steganography).

The reason I suggest the hackers go start their own thread is because I don't know if it is classed as breaking the Rules or not to decompile the SWF, and for some people it's the fun part. So go hack it somewhere else, let us playing the game as it's made to be played (and none of this "If it was so wrong they'd code it smarter so we couldn't!" business, that doesn't really hold water because they're not giving you ANY hint that there are clues in the SWF) enjoy it as it unfolds.


Ok so I'm one of those hackers and I just wanted to say that if it wasn't because the webmaster of find815.com slept on both hands yesterday you won't have many of the hacks , to say it clear and loud he made the folders in the website PUBLIC FOR LISTING for many hours so anyone could go there and just pick the files from the site so NO NEED TO BE A HACKER THERE , just need a browser lol .

As for the password , again it was a mistake made by ABC who uploaded the game before date so again it's not a hacker thing .

Now OTOH the flash used in the website is version 9 which just happens not to have good decompilers yet (I made my own decompiler and I can get the code but it's really basic stuff although I can tell you the flash files in this game don't hold any relevant info yet) so essentially hackers or flash hackers to be precise use the decompilers only to get better pics than the usual screen caps .

I do agree though that results from decompiling should almost always be posted in their own thread (exception could be posting a refined version of an already published content) and stating clearly that they can spoil some peoples fun ... That's what I do in the forum I usually post in .

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:31 pm
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pauinha6
Boot


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 48
duncan wrote:
theShaggy wrote:
Most of these args aren't time-dependant with all Flash assets... people decompile to get the images, it's part of what a lot of the games are about.

Personally, I think that's digging a little too far into things, since Flash by it's nature is interactive and will show you what you need when you need it (unlike, say "Here's just a picture. Go nuts!" and you get into Steganography).

The reason I suggest the hackers go start their own thread is because I don't know if it is classed as breaking the Rules or not to decompile the SWF, and for some people it's the fun part. So go hack it somewhere else, let us playing the game as it's made to be played (and none of this "If it was so wrong they'd code it smarter so we couldn't!" business, that doesn't really hold water because they're not giving you ANY hint that there are clues in the SWF) enjoy it as it unfolds.


Ok so I'm one of those hackers and I just wanted to say that if it wasn't because the webmaster of find815.com slept on both hands yesterday you won't have many of the hacks , to say it clear and loud he made the folders in the website PUBLIC FOR LISTING for many hours so anyone could go there and just pick the files from the site so NO NEED TO BE A HACKER THERE , just need a browser lol .

As for the password , again it was a mistake made by ABC who uploaded the game before date so again it's not a hacker thing .

Now OTOH the flash used in the website is version 9 which just happens not to have good decompilers yet (I made my own decompiler and I can get the code but it's really basic stuff although I can tell you the flash files in this game don't hold any relevant info yet) so essentially hackers or flash hackers to be precise use the decompilers only to get better pics than the usual screen caps .

I do agree though that results from decompiling should almost always be posted in their own thread (exception could be posting a refined version of an already published content) and stating clearly that they can spoil some peoples fun ... That's what I do in the forum I usually post in .



well spoken duncan!!! agreed totaly!!

i'm not a hacker nor have any hacking abilities what so ever unfortunately... but i do think if it weren't for hackers we would have some LOUSY screenshots!!! instead of perfectly good pictures!!!

if you want to create a new thread for spoilerish stuff do so, but please let me know!!!!!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:43 pm
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theShaggy
Unfettered

Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Toronto, Ontario

 		Well, sure. The folders are accessible, but the site doesn't have a secret button or anything on the available website saying "Click here for the folders!" You can go see it, but that doesn't mean you're supposed to. I can go read spoilers for season 4, but that doesn't mean I'm supposed to.

The password, you're right, that was an error on their part. But the game was still played as the game was intended to be played, just a day early. We didn't really miss out on that. The issue is the final reward you get for having the password, an image posted in this thread yesterday early. If we hadn't gone poking around the SWF (as a community), we wouldn't have found it and people would have said "Awesome! New number that isn't like our old number!"

The show, just like the game, was designed to unfold at a proper pace. Unlike normal ARGs, this is done through a single interface on a single site (thus far). They're pretty much spoonfeeding what we need, so what is the benefit in going hacking through their Flash? Granted, that's my opinion. I don't begrudge anyone for decompiling it, because I've seen that in numerous ARGs, but you're right, keeping it to a refined picture of a published clue is pretty good. We're pretty much in accord on most of it Smile Just keep the spoileriffic stuff elsewhere.
_________________
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:45 pm
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coffeegirl18
Entrenched


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 802
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

 		I have the same info as everyone else now. Ok enough about hacks, create a new spoilered thread and lets get on with the game.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Just received the same email...Note that it says 'Vacation reply'


Just a recap on the email:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Since the dawn of our species, man's been blessed with curiosity.
Your curiosity will be rewarded.

Namaste

Zeke Klotho Freundlich

_________________
Meow to all Canadians Smile (tLemporary)
Twitter http://twitter.com/coffeegirl18
Seeking new ARGs...send me a message with some good non-scary ones. Already have a scary one on the go Very Happy
Playing: The Slaughterhouse

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:49 pm
Last edited by coffeegirl18 on Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 4109
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

 		I'm not playing this whatever-ARGs-have-devolved-into thing, but I like what is being said here, and felt compelled to comment.
theShaggy wrote:
Well, sure. The folders are accessible, but the site doesn't have a secret button or anything on the available website saying "Click here for the folders!" You can go see it, but that doesn't mean you're supposed to. I can go read spoilers for season 4, but that doesn't mean I'm supposed to.

The difference is...? If something is up on the internet, and you don't have to bruteforce a password or bypass obvious security measures to get to it, isn't it fair game? Spoilers for upcoming episodes of every television show are freely available, so why do you think you're not "supposed to" read them? That's more of a personal decision on how you wish to experience the show -- and this game.
Quote:
The show, just like the game, was designed to unfold at a proper pace. Unlike normal ARGs, this is done through a single interface on a single site (thus far). They're pretty much spoonfeeding what we need, so what is the benefit in going hacking through their Flash?

It's this spoonfeeding and deliberate pacing which ruins any sense of this being an ARG for me. I avoid spoilers for the show because I do want to experience the storytelling as intended, but that is as a passive observer. An ARG is supposed to be an interactive adventure, allowing us to explore *every* corner of an alternative reality at our own pace. This isn't an ARG, it's a ... oh whatever. Giving it a label won't help. It's a game, but it's like playing a videogame with a strategy guide and a walk-thru: where is the challenge?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:55 pm
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pauinha6
Boot


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 48

 		i guess they got the "vacation reply" working so that it would be an automated mail response to everyone that sent an email there, instead of having to reply everyone (thousands at least) personaly......

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:56 pm
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dposse
Entrenched


Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 954
Location: CT
theShaggy wrote:
Well, sure. The folders are accessible, but the site doesn't have a secret button or anything on the available website saying "Click here for the folders!" You can go see it, but that doesn't mean you're supposed to. I can go read spoilers for season 4, but that doesn't mean I'm supposed to.

The password, you're right, that was an error on their part. But the game was still played as the game was intended to be played, just a day early. We didn't really miss out on that. The issue is the final reward you get for having the password, an image posted in this thread yesterday early. If we hadn't gone poking around the SWF (as a community), we wouldn't have found it and people would have said "Awesome! New number that isn't like our old number!"

The show, just like the game, was designed to unfold at a proper pace. Unlike normal ARGs, this is done through a single interface on a single site (thus far). They're pretty much spoonfeeding what we need, so what is the benefit in going hacking through their Flash? Granted, that's my opinion. I don't begrudge anyone for decompiling it, because I've seen that in numerous ARGs, but you're right, keeping it to a refined picture of a published clue is pretty good. We're pretty much in accord on most of it Smile Just keep the spoileriffic stuff elsewhere.


Agreed. If this was any other game, i might be amused by the hacking. But in this ARG, it is completely unnecessary. Nothing about Find815 screams "This puzzle is so difficult, i need to decompile some flash!".

Hackers (and this includes you, Duncan), i'm telling you this for the last time. Any more posting of hacks (or decompiled flash) for this ARG will result in the moderators getting involved. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but ruining this game and/or driving people away from this thread and website is unacceptable.

Personally, i'm disgusted that so few here aren't speaking out louder about this. I'm also disgusted that people here seem to think that there's nothing wrong with decompiling the flash.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:57 pm
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duncan
Boot

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 43
theShaggy wrote:
Well, sure. The folders are accessible, but the site doesn't have a secret button or anything on the available website saying "Click here for the folders!" You can go see it, but that doesn't mean you're supposed to. I can go read spoilers for season 4, but that doesn't mean I'm supposed to.

The password, you're right, that was an error on their part. But the game was still played as the game was intended to be played, just a day early. We didn't really miss out on that. The issue is the final reward you get for having the password, an image posted in this thread yesterday early. If we hadn't gone poking around the SWF (as a community), we wouldn't have found it and people would have said "Awesome! New number that isn't like our old number!"

The show, just like the game, was designed to unfold at a proper pace. Unlike normal ARGs, this is done through a single interface on a single site (thus far). They're pretty much spoonfeeding what we need, so what is the benefit in going hacking through their Flash? Granted, that's my opinion. I don't begrudge anyone for decompiling it, because I've seen that in numerous ARGs, but you're right, keeping it to a refined picture of a published clue is pretty good. We're pretty much in accord on most of it Smile Just keep the spoileriffic stuff elsewhere.


theShaggy : the site does have a magic button to hide folder contents , it's called .htaccess or httpd.conf any respectable webmaster knows that ... IT IS part of an ARG to go look for files , that's what everybody does , it has nothing to do with hackers , remember TLE we got many clues that way because folders were open intentionally , rachel blake was first introduced this way , now if you went yesterday to let's say : http://www.find815.com/project/assets/production/image/ you would've seen all the files there , those were IMAGES for god sake !!! how is someone going to know this is not supposed to be found ? all you had to do was to follow the source code and not of decompiled flash even , just plain source code as any ARG newbie would do ... no, this is a webmaster mistake and some files that weren't supposed to be public then were available to anyone (he fixed it later but the damage was already done)

As for the flash I can assure you it has little to do with anything spilled , take my word on this and I'm a system admin , you can protect your files in a way that even if you decompiled the files you don't get anything valuable (not embedding the files directly in the flash is one possibility , obfuscating it is another , using flash9 who has no good decompiler is another and so on) and in my opinion they're doing quite so in this game ... but you can't blame people for using available tools if you're not doing your job anyway , I agree though as I said earlier that you can blame them for posting contents in the inappropriate place . But again as I said the data was available to anyone and as long as I know in an ARG it's completely fair to use this public data ... it's an ABC mistake here not a hackers business .

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:08 am
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theShaggy
Unfettered

Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Toronto, Ontario
catherwood wrote:
I'm not playing this whatever-ARGs-have-devolved-into thing, but I like what is being said here, and felt compelled to comment.


You're right. I'm enjoying the discussion, myself.

Quote:
The difference is...? If something is up on the internet, and you don't have to bruteforce a password or bypass obvious security measures to get to it, isn't it fair game? Spoilers for upcoming episodes of every television show are freely available, so why do you think you're not "supposed to" read them? That's more of a personal decision on how you wish to experience the show -- and this game.


True, I might have mis-spoke. I don't mean to say that you should NOT read spoilers, but doing so ruins the intended pace of the show. You're very much welcome to - and I have read them for the show and movies and the like. But here, not having read Harry Potter 6, you wouldn't want someone running saying
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
SNAPE KILLED DUMBLEDORE!
, because it would spoil it for you. Some people love that, but others don't.

When you upload files here, though, there isn't a spoiler-tag (AFAIK), and I rarely see people treating decompiled SWF as spoiler material.


Quote:
It's this spoonfeeding and deliberate pacing which ruins any sense of this being an ARG for me.


Agreed. I was actually trying to explain the difference between this and a true ARG to a friend tonight. This isn't really an ARG. It's more of a viral game.

Quote:
It's a game, but it's like playing a videogame with a strategy guide and a walk-thru: where is the challenge?


TLE1 tried to give us a few challenges and we whipped through them in no time. But with something like LOST, whose plot is already overcomplicated, we're looking to get the canon material, not the puzzles. It's unfortunate, but that's what the game is geared to.

Oh, and

dposse wrote:
Any more posting of hacks (or decompiled flash) for this ARG will result in the moderators getting involved.


Personally, I think your threats are just freaking out a little too much, especially at the start of the game. We're having a debate on it, and I think that's helping one way or another.

And unless something has changed in the few months I haven't been around, I believe Catherwood IS a moderator.[/spoiler]
_________________
The Shaggy?
Playing nothing.
Being a student. Stupid education.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:17 am
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jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia

 		Despite my personal feelings about cheating, decompiling Flash, or general 'hack'ery, I have some issues with recent developments.

dposse wrote:
Hackers (and this includes you, Duncan), i'm telling you this for the last time. Any more posting of hacks (or decompiled flash) for this ARG will result in the moderators getting involved. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but ruining this game and/or driving people away from this thread and website is unacceptable.


Exactly what do you expect the moderators of this site to do? Are the people who post 'secrets' from decompiled Flash breaking the Unfiction TOS? I mean really, if the consensus from the players is that this is unacceptable behaviour, I guess that would be a different situation, but I see no consensus here.

In fact, what I see is a group of people who are curious about what this game is all about. Some, like dposse, are content to let the game play out as it was designed. Others are choosing to push the boundaries of the game, looking for clues in places that, perhaps, aren't meant to be found. In the end, there isn't really one right way to play the game, is there?

If anyone is 'at fault' for these early discoveries, it is probably the team behind the design of the game. It was their choice to leave assets in discoverable places, their choice to use Flash. However, I don't even think 'fault' can be assessed here -- the game looks like it will satisfy its demographic, the typical Lost fan.

If you feel that reading this thread will lead you to see things about the game you'd rather not see until you discover them, either through your own 'hacks' or through the natural progression of the game, there's an easy solution. As I see it, there's no need to make threats or call others down for their methods of game play, unless it violates the TOS here.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:21 am
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pauinha6
Boot


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 48
jamesi wrote:
Despite my personal feelings about cheating, decompiling Flash, or general 'hack'ery, I have some issues with recent developments.

dposse wrote:
Hackers (and this includes you, Duncan), i'm telling you this for the last time. Any more posting of hacks (or decompiled flash) for this ARG will result in the moderators getting involved. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but ruining this game and/or driving people away from this thread and website is unacceptable.


Exactly what do you expect the moderators of this site to do? Are the people who post 'secrets' from decompiled Flash breaking the Unfiction TOS? I mean really, if the consensus from the players is that this is unacceptable behaviour, I guess that would be a different situation, but I see no consensus here.

In fact, what I see is a group of people who are curious about what this game is all about. Some, like dposse, are content to let the game play out as it was designed. Others are choosing to push the boundaries of the game, looking for clues in places that, perhaps, aren't meant to be found. In the end, there isn't really one right way to play the game, is there?

If anyone is 'at fault' for these early discoveries, it is probably the team behind the design of the game. It was their choice to leave assets in discoverable places, their choice to use Flash. However, I don't even think 'fault' can be assessed here -- the game looks like it will satisfy its demographic, the typical Lost fan.

If you feel that reading this thread will lead you to see things about the game you'd rather not see until you discover them, either through your own 'hacks' or through the natural progression of the game, there's an easy solution. As I see it, there's no need to make threats or call others down for their methods of game play, unless it violates the TOS here.


i couldn't have said it better myself Smile

has i've stated, i do think spoilers should be tagged!!!! but everyone plays the game has they want to!!
as long as spoiler tags are used, what's the problem?????

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:25 am
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theShaggy
Unfettered

Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Toronto, Ontario
duncan wrote:

theShaggy : the site does have a magic button to hide folder contents , it's called .htaccess or httpd.conf any respectable webmaster knows that ... IT IS part of an ARG to go look for files , that's what everybody does , it has nothing to do with hackers , remember TLE we got many clues that way because folders were open intentionally , rachel blake was first introduced this way , now if you went yesterday to let's say : http://www.find815.com/project/assets/production/image/ you would've seen all the files there , those were IMAGES for god sake !!! how is someone going to know this is not supposed to be found ? all you had to do was to follow the source code and not of decompiled flash even , just plain source code as any ARG newbie would do ... no, this is a webmaster mistake and some files that weren't supposed to be public then were available to anyone (he fixed it later but the damage was already done)


You're right; I concede the point. You wouldn't know if they were actually intended IG or not, if you happened to stumble across it. Now, remind me about TLE1 and meeting Rachel Blake in the folders, weren't there clear clues leading you towards those folders? The Rachel Blake intro video was a mistake on someone's part, too... it came out early because of someone's bad judgement.

If it's up and it's available, it will be found - that's what makes Unfictioners so damn awesome. They know how to find things in the smallest nooks and crannies. But most UFers also have an acute sense of what is IG and was is OOG. This game is pretty clearly not a typical ARG. The webmasters were pretty slack on letting this get by them, and now the price has been paid. Still...

I cut a bit out but will try to keep the context, when duncan wrote:
... but you can't blame people for using available tools if you're not doing your job anyway , I agree though as I said earlier that you can blame them for posting contents in the inappropriate place . But again as I said the data was available to anyone and as long as I know in an ARG it's completely fair to use this public data ... it's an ABC mistake here not a hackers business .


You can't blame them, you're right. Again, that's a definite merit in this community. But going through a back door or, worse, a window when the front door is wide open, and telling everyone "hey come hop the fence, the back door is unlocked!" just means that you don't see the awesome canapes and cheeses on the beautifully-set dining room table until after you've walked through the messy kitchen. Some people like doing that, and can and will, but they can keep the cooking utensils they find to themselves, rather than banging them together in the living room.

... I can't believe I just wrote that allegory.
_________________
The Shaggy?
Playing nothing.
Being a student. Stupid education.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:30 am
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Palm
Unfictologist


Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 1360
Location: North of Key West

 		2 cents
theShaggy wrote:
.....
Hackers (and this includes you, Duncan), i'm telling you this for the last time. Any more posting of hacks (or decompiled flash) for this ARG will result in the moderators getting involved. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but ruining this game and/or driving people away from this thread and website is unacceptable.
Personally, i'm disgusted that so few here aren't speaking out louder about this. I'm also disgusted that people here seem to think that there's nothing wrong with decompiling the flash.


I am surprised about all the drama here. I consider myself to be fairly new - having played a few games from start to finish, and in each of those games there was freedom to post what people wanted (which is what I liked about this forum). I agree spoilers are in order so you don't have to read it if you don't want to.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:33 am
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pauinha6
Boot


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 48

 		i'm so sorry but i just LMAO with that allegory Laughing

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:34 am
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elissamay
Boot

Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 14
Location: New York

 		888 number response?
Has anyone left a message/gotten a call back from the 888 number?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:34 am
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