Return to Unfiction unforum
 a.r.g.b.b 
FAQ FAQ   Search Search 
 
Welcome!
New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.
Website Restoration Project
This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.
Announcements
This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.
This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.
 
The time now is Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:53 pm
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)
View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum
Calendar
 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Suicide over MySpace hoax could put PMs in legal trouble
Moderators: imbri, ndemeter
View previous topicView next topic
Page 1 of 2 [28 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
celina63
Entrenched


Joined: 28 Sep 2002
Posts: 909
Location: San Diego, CA

Suicide over MySpace hoax could put PMs in legal trouble
Mom trying to make fake online accounts on social networks illegal

I read this article this morning on the Today Show's website, about Tina Meier's fight to avenge her daughter's provoked suicide due to a fake MySpace account hoax. Her solution is to make it a prosecutable offense to create a fake account on a social networking site, such as MySpace, Facebook, etc.

For those unfamiliar with the case: Megan Meier, weeks away from her 14th birthday when she died, committed suicide when a new MySpace friend, "Jake", told her the world would be better off without her. Megan experienced issues in the past with depression and suicidal thoughts and was under treatment for them, but this was apparently the final straw for her fragile ego. However, a twist - turns out this "Jake" never existed. After Megan had a falling out with a friend, the friend's mother created the account, befriended Megan, and then delivered the devastating blow.

Since then (this event occurred in Oct '05), Megan's mother Tina has been trying to get this person prosecuted for her actions, to no avail - currently she (well, her lawyers) are attempting to have her prosecuted under the wire fraud laws - she has now taken up the cause to make it illegal for ANYONE to create a fake account on a social networking site.

While this probably has very little chance of becoming law, it may still end up being a concern for PMs who use this method of interaction and game-play - perhaps opening themselves up for lawsuits or at least negative press.
_________________
Politicians are like diapers - they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:33 pm
 View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
Rekidk
Entrenched


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 992
Location: Indiana, USA

Certainly this is a tragedy, but--despite what some may say--this isn't MySpace's fault. Not even close. The problem has nothing to do with the Internet. The problem has everything to do with bullying.

To do such a mean thing to a mentally unstable girl was cruel. You'd think that adults--it was a mother in the neighborhood that made the "Jake" account, right?--would be above such things. That said, I'm sure that--regardless of cruel intentions--"Jake's" creator did not intend for Megan to die.

What happened to Megan was horrible, but it seems like her mother is looking for someone--or something--to blame. Why wasn't she monitoring her child's online activities, especially if her child had mental instabilities? By pushing for this law, she is trying to justify herself, in my opinion.

Ultimately, it was a horrible tragedy, and I imagine that everyone involved has gone through a great deal of pain. I feel terrible for everyone who was involved.
_________________
iTube - iTweet - iNetwork

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:27 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
labfly
Unfettered


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 717
Location: nyc or the haunted house in maine

so sad

i remember when this story first emerged in the press. i feel so sad for this girl and her family. and i feel it's one of many reasons that games will need to identify themselves and their character pages as we all move forward with this genre of storytelling. i know that myspace is clear on the legal issues and they have no tolerance for any fictional work unless it i.d.s itself as a "fictional character in fictional world". if they are aware that your page is not a real individual they will delete it. of course, the number of subscribers makes policing a difficult task for any social networking site. as many of you guys know, i love using myspace.. but i will not be using it in the future without some sort of tag or i.d.
_________________
r u a sammeeeee? yep.
resident of Snow Town
(friend of Peeps & Peg)


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:37 pm
 View user's profile MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
celina63
Entrenched


Joined: 28 Sep 2002
Posts: 909
Location: San Diego, CA

Rekidk wrote:

To do such a mean thing to a mentally unstable girl was cruel. You'd think that adults--it was a mother in the neighborhood that made the "Jake" account, right?--would be above such things. That said, I'm sure that--regardless of cruel intentions--"Jake's" creator did not intend for Megan to die.


While the other mother - yes, you're right, she was the MOTHER of a friend who had a falling out with Megan - states she did not intend for Megan to kill herself... just WHAT do you expect when you tell someone that "the world would be a better place without you"?! And while it may be true that she didn't *intend* for Megan to die, she certainly shows NO REMORSE for it - in fact, she's busy proclaiming HERSELF to be the victim in this situation because the media attention has affected her business and life. WHAAAAA!!!

"Intent" is a slippery thing, anyway - noone who's ever been in a car accident while intoxicated and killed someone else has EVER intended to kill someone - yet they are still punished for "vehicular manslaughter". This case is no different in my eyes - in fact, it's worse.

Rekidk wrote:

What happened to Megan was horrible, but it seems like her mother is looking for someone--or something--to blame. Why wasn't she monitoring her child's online activities, especially if her child had mental instabilities? By pushing for this law, she is trying to justify herself, in my opinion.


Actually, she VERY carefully monitored her daughter's online activities, and it was only after very heavy lobbying by Megan that her mom allowed her to create an account. Megan's computer time was always in the living room under her mom's watch. "Jake" seemed like an awesome friend for a long time - this ruse went on for months, I believe - and when "Jake" pulled the plug, her mom told her to get off the computer INSTANTLY - but could stay there to make sure she did, as she had to get to a doctor's appointment. And it wasn't just "Jake" - several other "friends" jumped on the bandwagon and it escalated from there. The only thing Tina (mom) could have done differently in this instance (IMO, and in hindsight I'm sure she thinks the same thing) is to have shut the computer off herself without even bothering to log off, in order to remove Megan from the exploding situation for a "cooling off" period. But, hindsight is always 20/20... Sad

But... the point of my original post was to discuss the ramifications of the possibility Tina Meier does manage to get some sort of legislation passed on ARGs and game-play... so my apologies for straying from the topic. I just wanted to get those couple of points made Smile
_________________
Politicians are like diapers - they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:22 pm
 View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
celina63
Entrenched


Joined: 28 Sep 2002
Posts: 909
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: so sad

labfly wrote:
as many of you guys know, i love using myspace.. but i will not be using it in the future without some sort of tag or i.d.


What sort of ID can you use that won't violate, or stretch too far, the TINAG concept, but still indicate we are dealing with a character?

I mean, to gameplayers, it's obvious when an account belongs to a character (well, most of the time... sometimes we grasp at straws Very Happy) - we know what to look for based on experience... but I'm assuming you're taking any kind of policing the social networking sites themselves will start to enforce into account for this "ID".
_________________
Politicians are like diapers - they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:25 pm
 View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
Rekidk
Entrenched


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 992
Location: Indiana, USA

celina63 wrote:

Rekidk wrote:

What happened to Megan was horrible, but it seems like her mother is looking for someone--or something--to blame. Why wasn't she monitoring her child's online activities, especially if her child had mental instabilities? By pushing for this law, she is trying to justify herself, in my opinion.


Actually, she VERY carefully monitored her daughter's online activities, and it was only after very heavy lobbying by Megan that her mom allowed her to create an account. Megan's computer time was always in the living room under her mom's watch. "Jake" seemed like an awesome friend for a long time - this ruse went on for months, I believe - and when "Jake" pulled the plug, her mom told her to get off the computer INSTANTLY - but could stay there to make sure she did, as she had to get to a doctor's appointment. And it wasn't just "Jake" - several other "friends" jumped on the bandwagon and it escalated from there. The only thing Tina (mom) could have done differently in this instance (IMO, and in hindsight I'm sure she thinks the same thing) is to have shut the computer off herself without even bothering to log off, in order to remove Megan from the exploding situation for a "cooling off" period. But, hindsight is always 20/20... Sad


Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks for informing me.

In that case, it sounds like she did everything she could... Which makes this incident even more sad.

Again, though, the issue is not MySpace--they do try their best to protect their users, I believe--but the people who did this to Megan. It is their fault, and I think that Tina should be persuing another way to prevent future cases of cyber-bullying; something like what she proposes would just be too hard to enforce and ultimately would solve very little.

Finally, my condolences continue to go to Megan's family.
_________________
iTube - iTweet - iNetwork

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:49 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

The issue in using MySpace for fictional characters isn't one where it has to be identified for the purpose of ARGs. The issue in this particular tragic case was the purposeful misleading by an adult in her interactions with a minor child. I see a huge difference between Happy Rogers, Higgs, Dwin, etc and this "Jake" persona (created just to befriend and then "punish" a teenager).
Sammeeeees never contacted strangers, they always waited for players (or non players) to contact them. And there was "who are you" type interactions initially - is this person to be trusted was a question asked the first time we reached out to them. I would think the same thing would occur in any ARG that used MySpace for social networking/fleshing out characters/making them 'real'.
This should be a civil lawsuit, unless you can get the local jurisdiction to bring around harrassment/stalking type charges.
_________________
'squeek'
r u a Sammeeeee? I am Forever!


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:50 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
celina63
Entrenched


Joined: 28 Sep 2002
Posts: 909
Location: San Diego, CA

konamouse wrote:
The issue in using MySpace for fictional characters isn't one where it has to be identified for the purpose of ARGs. The issue in this particular tragic case was the purposeful misleading by an adult in her interactions with a minor child. I see a huge difference between Happy Rogers, Higgs, Dwin, etc and this "Jake" persona (created just to befriend and then "punish" a teenager).
Sammeeeees never contacted strangers, they always waited for players (or non players) to contact them. And there was "who are you" type interactions initially - is this person to be trusted was a question asked the first time we reached out to them. I would think the same thing would occur in any ARG that used MySpace for social networking/fleshing out characters/making them 'real'.


Absolutely agree - like I said above, my concern was not for us, experienced players of ARGS, but for the PMs that might find themselves in legal trouble for setting up a false account. My concern was, while I agree it's unlikely for Tina's proposal to actually happen, just by her publicity of the issue might leave the PMs open for some sort of trouble. I just thought it prudent to bring this issue to the forums for awareness and discussion.

konamouse wrote:
This should be a civil lawsuit, unless you can get the local jurisdiction to bring around harrassment/stalking type charges.


Believe it or not, Tina has tried both of these lawsuits, and both have failed! This leaves me with even less belief in our "legal system" than I had already! Her last chance to have *any* kind of punishment levied on this woman is the wire tap fraud charge.
_________________
Politicians are like diapers - they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:31 am
 View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
Giskard
Sassypants


Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 2066
Location: Chicago

Re: Suicide over MySpace hoax could put PMs in legal trouble
Mom trying to make fake online accounts on social networks illegal

celina63 wrote:
Her solution is to make it a prosecutable offense to create a fake account on a social networking site, such as MySpace, Facebook, etc.

[..]

While this probably has very little chance of becoming law, it may still end up being a concern for PMs who use this method of interaction and game-play - perhaps opening themselves up for lawsuits or at least negative press.


Worryingly, the Dutch department of justice is currently working on a proposal they made to the EU in october to make a variety of this into European law. It would be specifically aimed at people using false identity to contact underaged children and setting up dates, at least, that's how the discussion got started here. I can admire the thought of that, but I've also seen our minister of justice state, on several occasions, without placing it in context, that this law will 'ban the use of false identity on the internet' without making distinctions.

I'm very curious to see how this will play over the next months...
_________________
"They never tell you truth is subjective, they only tell you not to lie." -- Gary Jules

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:36 am
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 ICQ Number 
 Back to top 
labfly
Unfettered


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 717
Location: nyc or the haunted house in maine

celina63 wrote:

Absolutely agree - like I said above, my concern was not for us, experienced players of ARGS, but for the PMs that might find themselves in legal trouble for setting up a false account. My concern was, while I agree it's unlikely for Tina's proposal to actually happen, just by her publicity of the issue might leave the PMs open for some sort of trouble. I just thought it prudent to bring this issue to the forums for awareness and discussion.


exactly, celina. we aren't the issue. of course we all know when something is just a story. and i agree, kona, huge difference in the characters i created and the hideous creation of this woman. but myspace is owned by fox. and fox doesn't want any legal problems or any possibility of legal problems. you can't even have a discussion about it. those are their rules.

as far as i.d.-ing the page as part of a story... i do believe there are clever ways to badge a page without having a huge banner flapping about saying "hey this is labfly's ARG". that said though... i also believe the sort of i.d. that works for a company like fox can't help but mess with the tinag concept a bit. but that's just something we have deal with now if we want to use a social networking platform for an element in a game.
_________________
r u a sammeeeee? yep.
resident of Snow Town
(friend of Peeps & Peg)


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:45 am
 View user's profile MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
imbriModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 1182
Location: wonderland

I think that we can all pretty much agree that what happened to Megan Meier was tragic and awful. However, we really need to look at the facts of the situation without the emotional ties.

Situation: Adult woman takes on a teenage male persona for the specific purpose of communicating with a 13 year old girl who had a public myspace account (which is only possible if you list your age as 14 or older, I believe). The situation escalated to the point that the child developed a crush on the boy persona and after a fight the child, with a known history of mental illness, killed herself.

It is a fact that personas have been used for ages for a variety of reasons. From corporate and government spies to advertising (Betty Crocker was created in order to provide personalized responses) to writing advise columns (Dear Abby) to a million other reasons. The problem is *not* the use of personas, it is the intent in which they are used. In the case above, it potentially turned into a predatory situation (the woman claims that she was trying to protect her own child by learning what Megan was saying about her and it got out of hand).

Now, of course, ARG designers are not dealing with personas, they are dealing with characters created for fictional works. This is not unlike television shows and movies, some of which have made use of social networking sites for their characters.The issue comes down to the realism with which they are presented as well as the name recognition. I doubt that anyone would suggest that Dear Abby have a disclaimer on her myspace page (if she has one) that says "This is the fictional persona of Jeanne Phillips"

When it comes down to making a law on such a thing, frankly, I think it's up to the individual websites for how they deal with such things. Just as Unfiction has rules in its TOS to disallow characters from posting, I would respect MySpace if they made the same decision or one that required creatots to disclaim the fact. However, in my opinion, it should not become a rule of law because, if so, where are the lines drawn? What about websites like livejournal which are social networking sites and have a thriving fanfiction community? What of a social networking site created explicitly for a fictional universe?

As ARG desiginers, I think that it's important to push the boundaries of where story and play meet, but it's equally important to respect the rules set forth by the places and tools that you want to use in the process of pushing those boundaries.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:30 am
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address
 Back to top 
Shutaro
Decorated


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Northren California

imbri wrote:
I think that we can all pretty much agree that what happened to Megan Meier was tragic and awful. However, we really need to look at the facts of the situation without the emotional ties.


Setting aside the emotional ties, I feel the need to point out that if this did not occur on MySpace (if, say, the suicide occurred as a result of something considered more "traditional"; bullying and such, a far more common occurrence), it would not be news. However, because it happened on scary MySpace, which is part of the scary Intarweb, which we all know is home to all manner of scary child molesters, predators, godless heathens, free thinkers, communists, and terrorists (they really need to make a law against it), the situation gets much greater play in the media than it would otherwise.
_________________

Playing: Nothing
Watching: Eldrich Errors, Tom Tooman
"Call immdeiately. Time is running out. We both need to do something monstrous before we die."


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:45 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
 ICQ Number 
 Back to top 
imbriModerator
Entrenched


Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 1182
Location: wonderland

Shutaro wrote:
Setting aside the emotional ties, I feel the need to point out that if this did not occur on MySpace (if, say, the suicide occurred as a result of something considered more "traditional"; bullying and such, a far more common occurrence), it would not be news.


Agreed. Though I would take it further and question what the reaction would be if it had been another website. I also wonder how the press would have handled it if it were done on Facebook considering that it is the oh so much sweeter cousin of myspace. But, that's a complete derail of the thread.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:11 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address
 Back to top 
Shutaro
Decorated


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Northren California

imbri wrote:
Agreed. Though I would take it further and question what the reaction would be if it had been another website. I also wonder how the press would have handled it if it were done on Facebook considering that it is the oh so much sweeter cousin of myspace. But, that's a complete derail of the thread.


Me, I could do without either. In my day, we didn't need AJAX or Web 2.0 to create personal pages, HTML and Web 1.0 worked and we liked it just fine that way. Same animal, different coloration. *ahem* Anyway,

*attempts to re-rail the thread*

Well, in some respects it would be an slightly different story of it occurred on Facebook. If I recall correctly, they have a policy against creating, for lack of a better word, bogus identities (you're supposed to be who you say you are). Granted, they have no way of practically enforcing this (though I do occasionally see article regarding people whose user names have been rejected by Facebook because they appeared bogus)... And legally I suppose one would be in the same waters regardless of which service you use. I can't recall ever having seen Facebook used for an ARG, tho (granted, I have not been at this as long as some of the other posters here).
_________________

Playing: Nothing
Watching: Eldrich Errors, Tom Tooman
"Call immdeiately. Time is running out. We both need to do something monstrous before we die."


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:04 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
 ICQ Number 
 Back to top 
Ivo
Unfettered


Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 380
Location: Illinois, USA

konamouse wrote:

This should be a civil lawsuit, unless you can get the local jurisdiction to bring around harrassment/stalking type charges.


This seems to be the direction the case is going. Fraud based more off of telephone harassment law precedent. I heard that a 2006 (federal?) law, similar in nature to laws that made telephone harassment etc illegal, was being applied in this case. That and a healthy dose of karma.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:26 am
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 2 [28 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
View previous topicView next topic
 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group