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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[QUESTION] SPOILERWas it a nuke or some kind of bombardment?
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dronetek
Boot

Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 27
daisho wrote:
eblkheart wrote:
Excellent post


Thanks for the info, and welcome to the board. I was thinking they may have blanketed the area with some sort of Fuel/Air bomb, mainly because it seemed to me like there were 2 explosions, and they did not die until the second one. I could be wrong on that, and I have no idea of the feasability of that, it's just how it struck me at the time.

Also, if you were destroying a city with conventional munitions rather than nukes, I would like to think you would still say a prayer for those in the area.


All of you guys suggesting a fuel air bomb got nothing to base it on. Why all the grim foreshadowing of "operation hammerdown". I've NEVER seen a movie with such grim expectations and language used to describe anything but a nuke.

Also, They were under a suvterarnian bridge thing. Its possible that it shielded them from the most of the blast and heat wave.

I'm just not seeing what exactly leads you all to beleive it was anyhting but a nuke.

-Get out of city before operation hammer down, (give serious stare to characters)

-Operation hammer down last resort if conventional bombings don't work.
(Why would a fuel air bomb work, but not ton of 500/1000lb bombs? )

-On the radio after the chopper goes down, "its still alive, commence operation hammer down, god help us". Why say god help us? Oh geez we're about to drop a slightly less effective bomb, god help us!" That makes no sense people!

You do hear multiple explosions, but you hear that the entire time leading up to the end. I dont think you ever stop hearing it.

Quote:
Nuke Manhattan?? Are you kidding?? I don't think that the military would be stupid enough to contaminate the most expensive plot of land in on earth. The army guy said that they were going to "level" Manhattan. My guess is that they used carpet bombing along with several "daisy-cutter" bombs.


Again, I'm going to guess most of you dont realize that daisy cutters and fuel air bombs aren't exactly giant leaps from the munitions they were already using. Hell, fuel air bombs are used for caves to suck all the air out. Why that would be effective against the monster I dont know.

Again "God help us, we're about to use a slightly LESS POWERFUL bomb than the munitions we've been using, god help us" That makes ZERO sense. Manhattan was already gone, after 7 hours of bombardment and the monster destroying everything in its path. A final plan could ONLY mean a nuke.

There is no way it was a fuel air bomb. Somethingawful is hooked to this idea and I have no clue why. A fuel air bomb wouldn't do anymore damage than the 1000lb bombs they were dropping all over it.


Quote:
(I don't know if they would have a medical triage unit so close though)


Remember, the Army guy tells them they are evacuating everything.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:12 am
Last edited by dronetek on Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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The_Misfit
Kilroy

Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 2

 		Also remember the Army guy says that the Air Raid sirens will start at 2 minutes out...you hear them as the bombardment is going on...

I think there's 2 things happening:

1. The military is continuing to attack, they're not going to stop one thing while waiting for another - especially if you're talking a larger scale weapon and/or nuclear device.

2. MGP was moving, the bombs that hit the bridge might have been aimed for him, however in 1-2 minutes he could have covered a large amount of ground, allowing a small nuclear device to be dropped on him that could have contained the emp effects....

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:35 am
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Horned1
Boot


Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 41
daisho wrote:
eblkheart wrote:
Excellent post

Again, I'm going to guess most of you dont realize that daisy cutters and fuel air bombs aren't exactly giant leaps from the munitions they were already using. Hell, fuel air bombs are used for caves to suck all the air out. Why that would be effective against the monster I dont know.


You don't know? The Russians just developed a FAE (Fuel/Air Explosive) with the explosive force of 44 Tons of TNT. A small tactical nuke has a yield of about 100 tons of TNT, so given the option, I'd go with the less powerful FAE rather than deal with the radiation and possible EMP effects.

All it would mean is that instead of dropping one nuke, they could drop 4 or 5 FAEs across Manhattan to achieve the same goal.

That would also explain the multiple explosions heard.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:03 am
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dronetek
Boot

Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 27
Horned1 wrote:
You don't know? The Russians just developed a FAE (Fuel/Air Explosive) with the explosive force of 44 Tons of TNT. A small tactical nuke has a yield of about 100 tons of TNT, so given the option, I'd go with the less powerful FAE rather than deal with the radiation and possible EMP effects.

All it would mean is that instead of dropping one nuke, they could drop 4 or 5 FAEs across Manhattan to achieve the same goal.

That would also explain the multiple explosions heard.


How do you distinguish between the bombardment we hear for at least 30 mins, non-stop, leading up to the end?

Another point I made in the previous post was that fuel air bombs are meant to be used in caves and underground targets because it sucks the air out and kills everything. The russian fuel air bomb is no different:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6990815.stm
Quote:
Such bombs are mainly designed to destroy underground targets.


It seems to me that in a last resort action, you would use a weapons specifically designed for its purpose. Using a fuel air bomb, while perhaps effective would be a roll of the dice, as opposed to a nuke.

Quote:
Thermobaric weapons distinguish themselves from conventional explosive weapons by using atmospheric oxygen, instead of carrying an oxidizer in their explosives. They are also called high-impulse thermobaric weapons (HITs), fuel-air explosives (FAE or FAX) or sometimes fuel-air munitions, heat and pressure weapons, or vacuum bombs. They produce more explosive energy for a given size than do other conventional explosives, but have the disadvantage of being less predictable in their effect.


So, I'll concede that a fuel air bomb is considered more powerful than a conventional bomb. Even so, I dont see why a fuel air bomb would be any better than 7 hours worth of artillery and aerial bombardment.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:19 am
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Aquastorm
Boot

Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Hong Kong
dronetek wrote:
daisho wrote:
eblkheart wrote:
Excellent post


Thanks for the info, and welcome to the board. I was thinking they may have blanketed the area with some sort of Fuel/Air bomb, mainly because it seemed to me like there were 2 explosions, and they did not die until the second one. I could be wrong on that, and I have no idea of the feasability of that, it's just how it struck me at the time.

Also, if you were destroying a city with conventional munitions rather than nukes, I would like to think you would still say a prayer for those in the area.


All of you guys suggesting a fuel air bomb got nothing to base it on. Why all the grim foreshadowing of "operation hammerdown". I've NEVER seen a movie with such grim expectations and language used to describe anything but a nuke.

Also, They were under a suvterarnian bridge thing. Its possible that it shielded them from the most of the blast and heat wave.

I'm just not seeing what exactly leads you all to beleive it was anyhting but a nuke.

-Get out of city before operation hammer down, (give serious stare to characters)

-Operation hammer down last resort if conventional bombings don't work.
(Why would a fuel air bomb work, but not ton of 500/1000lb bombs? )

-On the radio after the chopper goes down, "its still alive, commence operation hammer down, god help us". Why say god help us? Oh geez we're about to drop a slightly less effective bomb, god help us!" That makes no sense people!

You do hear multiple explosions, but you hear that the entire time leading up to the end. I dont think you ever stop hearing it.

Quote:
Nuke Manhattan?? Are you kidding?? I don't think that the military would be stupid enough to contaminate the most expensive plot of land in on earth. The army guy said that they were going to "level" Manhattan. My guess is that they used carpet bombing along with several "daisy-cutter" bombs.


Again, I'm going to guess most of you dont realize that daisy cutters and fuel air bombs aren't exactly giant leaps from the munitions they were already using. Hell, fuel air bombs are used for caves to suck all the air out. Why that would be effective against the monster I dont know.

Again "God help us, we're about to use a slightly LESS POWERFUL bomb than the munitions we've been using, god help us" That makes ZERO sense. Manhattan was already gone, after 7 hours of bombardment and the monster destroying everything in its path. A final plan could ONLY mean a nuke.

There is no way it was a fuel air bomb. Somethingawful is hooked to this idea and I have no clue why. A fuel air bomb wouldn't do anymore damage than the 1000lb bombs they were dropping all over it.


Quote:
(I don't know if they would have a medical triage unit so close though)


Remember, the Army guy tells them they are evacuating everything.


Actually, Daisy Cutters and Fuel Airs are leap from conventional bombs, especially when deployed en mass.

The largest FAE in the American arsenal is the MOAB. It's 18,700 lb in weight Itproduces a fireball radius thats 450 feet and reported capable of leveling 9 city blocks. There's reportedly 15 of them in the American arsenal at this point.

The 15,000 lb Daisy Cutter has a 300-900 feet kill radius blocks.

The carpet bombing run by the B-2 seems to be using Mk-84 2000lb, it was nicknamed "Hammer" for its considerable power, it is capable of making 50 feet deep by 26 foot wide craters.

Let's say we use a 2 kiloton nuclear warhead on Grumpy Pants. Then the fireball would no doubt be larger, but do you think it would justified to use something that instead of the 15 MOABs on it? The EMP? THe radiation?
You don't want to scratch the armour, you want to penetrate it. A lot of smaller bombs do that better than a massive one.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:38 am
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NorsU
Veteran

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 79

 		my guess after watching was more a close to direct hit of heavy bombing..... not nuclear.

and nothing says for sure they were killed.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:18 pm
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manygrumpypants
Boot

Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 27

 		quote from movie
i haven't seen it yet, but if the soldier does indeed say:

"Operation hammer down, the last resort if conventional bombings don't work. "

then that pretty clearly implies a nuclear solution.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:02 pm
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Horned1
Boot


Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 41
dronetek wrote:
So, I'll concede that a fuel air bomb is considered more powerful than a conventional bomb. Even so, I dont see why a fuel air bomb would be any better than 7 hours worth of artillery and aerial bombardment.


It's the difference between dropping a 1 lb. weight on your foot 100 times, and dropping a 100 lb. weight on your foot once.

I still don't think nuclear weapons would be the best option UNLESS it was some sort of viral threat. The "cure" would cause more deaths than the monster.

Now if you argue that they were mainly concerned about the parasites (as I would be) then a nuke might be the only alternative to make sure that they got them all.

If on the other hand, you're after the big monster, then an FAE would be best because of the massive shockwave it causes. After all, the thing may have thick skin, but a shockwave of sufficient power will still liquefy its internal organs even if it can't penetrate the skin. And do so without the radiation and electromagnetic pulse.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:30 pm
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dronetek
Boot

Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 27
Quote:
I still don't think nuclear weapons would be the best option UNLESS it was some sort of viral threat. The "cure" would cause more deaths than the monster.


Two things:

1. The soldier specifically says that everyone will be evacuated. During some of the radio chatter, some one eludes to the city being completely evacuated.

2. Thats actually a good point, about the smaller critters. It seems to me a nuke is perfect for dealing with an infestation like that.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:41 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		Not an expert , but don't nuclear bombs leave that radiation cloud that contaminates and kills people for miles around? I'm thinking of Chernobyl where the radiation fell in countries miles away.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:52 pm
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dronetek
Boot

Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 27
rose wrote:
Not an expert , but don't nuclear bombs leave that radiation cloud that contaminates and kills people for miles around? I'm thinking of Chernobyl where the radiation fell in countries miles away.


Hence the seriousness of the voices talking about the operation and ending with "god help us".

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:00 pm
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matt_the_pale
Decorated


Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 215

 		Depending on the isotope that's used in the bomb, the radiation could reach tolerable levels as soon as two weeks, or it could take several years.

From what I understand, fission-fusion bombs have a relatively small amount of lingering radioactive fallout, but are not as powerful as fission-fusion-fission bombs. From here:
Quote:
Fusion, unlike fission, is relatively "clean"—it releases energy but no harmful radioactive products or large amounts of nuclear fallout. The fission reactions though, especially the last fission reaction, release a tremendous amount of fission products and fallout. If the last fission stage is omitted, by replacing the uranium tamper with one made of lead, for example, the overall explosive force is reduced by approximately half but the amount of fallout is relatively low.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:06 pm
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Row2k
Boot

Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 27

 		Just a thought on the EMP blast: It's already been determined that the video was recorded onto an SD card, not a DV tape or something similar. The EMP shouldn't have an impact on the SD card at all because it doesn't use a magnetic field to store information like a drive or tape would.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:17 pm
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Patrick Star
Unfettered


Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 409
Location: Oregon

 		Wasn't HAMMER the nickname of the first NEUTRON BOMB?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:31 pm
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pegassissy
Unfettered

Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 552

 		I dont know anything about bombs or tatics, but there were definently more than one bomb detonated. Three smaller bombs, actually four, and probaly more. A nuke would not be the correct choice in my mind, mainly because a nuke is meant to take out large populations, not a monster that can be possibly supressed by an effective carpet bombing or three. Plus operation "hammer Down" doesnt that sound like many bombs are going to be dropped on MGP.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:33 pm
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