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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Cloverfield (1-18-08) » Cloverfield: General / Updates
[Spoilers] Military Oddities
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jamman1
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lazarusHART wrote:
Thanks for my new avatar OliMango



That is the coolest avatar anyone has ever had.

Ever.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:18 pm
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Headman
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lazarusHART wrote:
Insert "Pop Goes The Weasel" with that scene.


But in Marlena's case it's "Pop Goes The Hottie"


Lol, how did you shrink it down? I want my Cowbells back!

Quote:
That is the coolest avatar anyone has ever had.

Ever.


You got that right my friend!

Damn it! Mad

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:20 pm
Last edited by Headman on Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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OliMango
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lazarusHART wrote:
Thanks for my new avatar OliMango


That's what I'm here for. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:22 pm
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lazarusHART
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Headman wrote:
lazarusHART wrote:
Insert "Pop Goes The Weasel" with that scene.


But in Marlena's case it's "Pop Goes The Hottie"


Lol, how did you shrink it down? I want my Cowbells back!


Uploaded the one OliMango posted to Photobucket, then uploaded the thumbnail of that one.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:22 pm
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jamman1
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Headman wrote:
jamman1 wrote:
starshiptrooper wrote:
I think he was just pointing out that in 90% of Liberal Hollywood's crap, the military is portrayed as an evil organization that doesn't care about anyone or anything except war and cover ups.

I didn't find it "Funny", but I did find it "Refreshing" that they portrayed the Military as servants of the public, and defenders of our lives.

Won't get JJ any nominations for an award, though.


Starshiptrooper was right about what I found funny (or refreshing, if you like). I'm a pretty liberal guy, but I have nothing against our troops (Their working stiffs just like the rest of us. It's "The Man" who deserves our hatred). Unlike John Kerry, I think most of us liberal types don't see soldiers as bumbling hillbillies who only joined the Army because they couldn't get into college. I think that Cloverfield did an excellent job of presenting military people as hard working, capable, and compassionate men and women who are focused on fulfilling their most important job - saving citizens.

Edit: As great as they are, they still fail hardcore in this movie (and arguably elsewhere). Love 'em anyway.


Haha, you almost saved it but just could not resist getting another shot in with the "arguably elsewhere" bit.

I don't know if they failed hardcore but they sure threw a lot at it. Maybe the reason they failed is because it's a giant monster or........I don't know, maybe because it's a Movie?

I agree that film and the liberal media love to portray out service men and women as incompetent. I will be able to sleep better tonight knowing the liberals do not think I am an uneducated hillbilly. I wonder if they know that some people join the armed forces for Patriotism? Or perhaps it is a family tradition to honorably serve their country? Nah, Maybe it is just easier to be a passive patriot these days? A quasi back seat military tactician and armchair politician know it all. Gotta love it don't ya! The Constitution is wonderful thing. Those uneducated hillbillies swore to protect and defend that Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. In doing so they afford everyone who lives in this country the opportunity that is unmatched throughout the world (burning US flags should not be one of them). How many of them have gave their lives for freedom? That sounds pretty heroic to me. Maybe they should research the statistics on the education of those protecting their views. I can tell you that 72.64 percent of Air Force enlisted are actually earning credits toward a degree and 100% earn credits through military training. Garsh, I wish I could have just joined the military to stay dumb. By the time I retire (in 2 years) I will have 2 associates and one bachelors degree, oh yeah and I will be retired at 40. Wink Dagum! Haha, your killing me! Laughing

Thanks Trooper, you are a good man my friend.


Yeah, I couldn't keep myself from adding that little jab at the end (can't help myself, no offense), but I said the thing about "uneducated hillbillies" because I've noticed that a lot of people who think that they're sophisticated, intelligent liberals actually think the same way that Kerry does (the "uneducated hill-billy" thing, which is a misconception that I've spent plenty of social science classes arguing against). As far as I see it, military folk get better training, and better life expierence than any ivy league jergoff.

And as far as joining for patriotic reasons? I'm sure that many do, but you have to admit that a lot of smart people choose the army because they want to go to college, but are too poor to do it without getting help from military aids. That's what I meant when I said it's "The Man," or "The Establishment" which is screwed up, not the soldiers.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:03 am
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starshiptrooper
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 		I joined to go to college. It was during the Clinton years when the military was being scaled back, and there wasn't any real threat at the time. I missed the Bosnia "peacekeeping mission" by six months but had i still been in, I would've gone, and i would've done it without bitching or crying. When you join the military, you have to know that at any minute, you could be deployed to a combat zone.

My biggest problem is not with those who haven't served and bash the military, my problem is with those that joined the military for college money and were shocked as hell when they were told it was time to earn their pay.

Our men and women that do serve never fail. They are failed by the civilian leadership. Because of political correctness, they can't fight to win because that would make somebody "feel bad". If our troops were allowed to fight like they were in World War 1 and 2, this war we're in now would be over by now, and they'd all be home.

jamman, I'm happy to here that you are willing to stand up for our troops in your social science classes. Probably gets you a bit of trouble from those that don't want to listen to another viewpoint.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:26 am
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lazarusHART
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 		If I speak good about the US and the ARMY at my history class in my college, my professor gets so pissed he cancels the class for the day.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:32 am
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Ghidra99
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manygrumpypants wrote:
So, they must have taken the bridge. Not seeing that either.


There are sixteen bridges and six tunnels leading out of Manhattan. There was plenty of time to evacuate all those people.

Edit: Assuming the SEATs didn't get them first.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:39 am
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jamman1
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 		Good points Starship, and I feel ya Laz. Sometimes I think that college is like some kind of weird inside-out aquariam. People there have a hard time understanding that they're actually on the inside - and that the castles, and coral, and treasure chests surrounding them are really just props.

Anyway, I guess the only thing I can say is I worry that war favors the rich, and buries the poor. That's all.


Edit: to explain further - I mean that a rich kid's choices are "get good grades and go to any college," or "get bad grades and go to the college that my parents gave money to," or "Screw it, lets party and be ok anyway."

Regular people don't have those choices, but we could all go to school if we had a different system. Also, countries that spend money going to war have less money to spend educating people (unless those people go to war for them).

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:43 am
Last edited by jamman1 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:37 am; edited 4 times in total
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jamman1
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Ghidra99 wrote:
manygrumpypants wrote:
So, they must have taken the bridge. Not seeing that either.


There are sixteen bridges and six tunnels leading out of Manhattan. There was plenty of time to evacuate all those people.

Edit: Assuming the SEATs didn't get them first.


Oh yeah, the topic!

I'm sure that most got out of the city, but I was thinking that there would be a lot of people left behind for various reasons (slowed down from injury, recently free from being trapped, doing crazy stuff to save loved ones like Rob's group), but it was pointed out that the military probably moved the evac points around to avoid MGP, so whoever's left is stuck freaking out and having "we're gonna die" sex.


Edit: What are SEATs?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:48 am
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kevrock
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 		Re: [Spoilers] Military Oddities
Was the military portrayed accurately?
Those were smaller helos waiting for the remaining military staff to evacuate, probably UH-1 or something similar. The major population evacuations would have been done by much larger transport helos like CH-46 or CH-53 and the like.

There's always the possibility that smaller helos were all they could get since the nearest military facility, which I think is Fort Hamilton, is a guard/reserve support base w/ some infantry available. I doubt they had an excess of large troop transport vessels at their immediate disposal.

There are precedents of mass civilian populations being evac by the military in a short notice. Look up the air evac of the Vietnamese during the Fall of Saigon. We evac'd like 6k people in a day by airlift to Navy vessels almost 100 miles away. So evac'ing Manhattan wouldn't be that big of a stretch.

Since the timeline went 12+ hrs before they dropped the hammer, they could have gotten support from neighboring military and government agencies and thier helos. Police, fire, parks service, news - they all would have helos at their disposal for evac.

Also, the Lt Col running shop on the ground is accurate. That is kind of the last rank where they'll still be "getting dirty" with the troops. Above that is full Colonel then the General ranks. Making the transition from Lt Col to Col is pretty much the definitive dividing line between where politics get involved in progressing in rank.

Plenty of "support" officers (e.g., comm, logistics, engineering) never even make it past Lt Col b/c all the shiney poltical jobs are saved for pilots and infantry commanders. But then again, the ones who do the behind-the-scenes jobs are usually the kind who don't want to deal w/ the political BS.

--Kev

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:37 pm
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Ghidra99
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jamman1 wrote:
Edit: What are SEATs?


Something Else, Also Terrible.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:29 pm
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jamman1
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 		Re: [Spoilers] Military Oddities
Was the military portrayed accurately?
kevrock wrote:
Those were smaller helos waiting for the remaining military staff to evacuate, probably UH-1 or something similar. The major population evacuations would have been done by much larger transport helos like CH-46 or CH-53 and the like.

There's always the possibility that smaller helos were all they could get since the nearest military facility, which I think is Fort Hamilton, is a guard/reserve support base w/ some infantry available. I doubt they had an excess of large troop transport vessels at their immediate disposal.

There are precedents of mass civilian populations being evac by the military in a short notice. Look up the air evac of the Vietnamese during the Fall of Saigon. We evac'd like 6k people in a day by airlift to Navy vessels almost 100 miles away. So evac'ing Manhattan wouldn't be that big of a stretch.

Since the timeline went 12+ hrs before they dropped the hammer, they could have gotten support from neighboring military and government agencies and thier helos. Police, fire, parks service, news - they all would have helos at their disposal for evac.

Also, the Lt Col running shop on the ground is accurate. That is kind of the last rank where they'll still be "getting dirty" with the troops. Above that is full Colonel then the General ranks. Making the transition from Lt Col to Col is pretty much the definitive dividing line between where politics get involved in progressing in rank.

Plenty of "support" officers (e.g., comm, logistics, engineering) never even make it past Lt Col b/c all the shiney poltical jobs are saved for pilots and infantry commanders. But then again, the ones who do the behind-the-scenes jobs are usually the kind who don't want to deal w/ the political BS.

--Kev


Bump. I think this is fascinating. Anybody else (like military people) have anything to add to, or comment about this?

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:57 pm
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olasnah
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Quote:
If I speak good about the US and the ARMY at my history class in my college, my professor gets so pissed he cancels the class for the day.


Obviously no student of history is he....

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:23 pm
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TheAirman
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 		Re: [Spoilers] Military Oddities
Was the military portrayed accurately?
kevrock wrote:


Plenty of "support" officers (e.g., comm, logistics, engineering) never even make it past Lt Col b/c all the shiney poltical jobs are saved for pilots and infantry commanders. But then again, the ones who do the behind-the-scenes jobs are usually the kind who don't want to deal w/ the political BS.

--Kev


I believe the word you're looking for is Company-Grade officer, with the exception of Majors and Lt.Cols, who are Field-Grades.

And as a matter of fact, barring pilots and Soldiers, all officers can make it to Group Commander (Section commander is the Army/Marine equivalent. I'm not sure about the Navy) status, and all group commanders are Colonels in the USAF. Also, it's almost a given that those having experience in the actual trade of which their particular service governs are the ones that make it to General officers. They know what they're doing and they actually still do it to an extent. I've seen [former] PACAF General Hester and former 35th FW Commander Brig.Gen Angellela, and 5th Air Force Commander Lt.Gen Wright fly a few times (which never made sense to me because a General will not fly to fight in wartime).

As for evacuation, NY is big, yes, but that doesn't mean that people weren't getting out. The Brooklyn Bridge is not the only way out of town, even though it is a major thoroughfare. Maybe some of them just ran, or walked, or drove.

I fear that the rest of them blew up, or crawled a few meters before dying (after exploding).

The fact of the matter is that evacuation of an entire fuckin' city, especially NY is a logistical nightmare, even though the military is prepared for it. Exercises, however, can only take you so far.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:19 pm
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