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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
Alternate vs. Alternative
Moderators: imbri, ndemeter
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imbriModerator
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 		Alternate vs. Alternative
What do you think?
josh18525 wrote:
I'm writing an article on alternative reality gaming ...

Well, the first thing you're gonna want to do is get the name right Wink

It's really hard, for me, to name the "top ten args" without having something to go on. Also, I'm way too biased to give a full answer. However, I think any list should include...

Last Call Poker - the best game that nobody played. It was a bit too "big" in that there were fairly huge independent ARGs every week running alongside a decent sized ARG that ran for the length of the run - so there were way too many characters and story bits to keep in your head, but other than that it was perfect. I absolutely adored the special favors which were little missions that could be done on one's own whenever they had the opportunity. (I've incorporated something along those lines into almost every game design that I've done since.) The story was fantastic despite (because of?) being so large. The balance of story & game was wonderful. The consideration for all sorts of player types (Puzzle players, game players, story players, & community players. Cooperative players, competitive player. Hard core players, casual players, & surface players. People that have weeks and weeks to get involved & people that have only a week to play. Etc etc & etc) was top notch. Others may disagree, but it wins the imbri's favorite arg award.

EDIT - Split from this Top 10 topic, because Josh didn't deserve this -xnbomb

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:22 am
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natas
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konamouse wrote:

And to make a Top 10 list for an article, you really have to have a good feel for the genre (including the reason why it's Alternate, not Alternative) and the history.



The dictionary defines alternate(adj.) as:

Quote:
4: constituting an alternative


So aren't the terms alternate reality and alternative reality really the same thing?

EDIT: I understand that the name IS "Alternate Reality Games" but just noticed that in your post, you try to distinguish a difference in meaning.

EDIT2:"Best of all-time in from my perspective includes all of 6 months and 2 ARG's, one of which looks like it has came to a dead-halt, so I can't help you out on this one, bud. But I have heard a LOT of people speak of how they loved the HALO arg "I Love Bees".

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:24 am
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imbriModerator
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natas wrote:

The dictionary defines alternate(adj.) as:

Quote:
4: constituting an alternative

So aren't the terms alternate reality and alternative reality really the same thing?


First of all, an alternative reality is another term used to describe a parallel universe and, while many ARG fictions make use of the parallel universe idea, that's not a necessary component of the game itself. We're looking at a term that describes not fiction but gaming (otherwise we'd be talking about Alternate Reality Fiction and not Alternate Reality Gaming).

That aside, let's look at what you found. You chose the 4th definition of the term, ignoring the other three. I suppose that you chose it because it contains the word "alternative" and thus your point was made. But it wasn't. The definition you chose was "constituting an alternative" or, in other words, "creating or being a part of an alternative". That is not the same thing as "an alternative." If it was, it would just say "an alternative." So, let's look at the first three definitions of alternate as used as an adjective (because it is defining reality and together they defining gaming)

Quote:

–adjective
1. being in a constant state of succession or rotation; interchanged repeatedly one for another: Winter and summer are alternate seasons.
2. reciprocal; mutual: alternate acts of kindness.
3. every second one of a series: Read only the alternate lines.


Alternate Reality...

A reality in a constant state of succession or rotation.
A reality that is mutual or reciprocal

That really fits, don't you think? Alternate Reality Gaming takes you back and forth between the tangible (real, everyday) reality and the intangible (fictional, make believe) reality as you play.

It is not just a parallel universe, even if that's the part of the narrative.

(sorry for the threadjack, josh)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:42 pm
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natas
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 		Or it could be alternative

Quote:
3: different from the usual or conventional: as a: existing or functioning outside the established cultural, social, or economic system


per the reference from the word "alternate"

To me it's pot-A-to and pot-AH-to

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:52 pm
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imbriModerator
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natas wrote:
Or it could be alternative
Quote:
3: different from the usual or conventional: as a: existing or functioning outside the established cultural, social, or economic system



But how is that true of Alternate Reality Gaming?

I mean, yes, our sort of gaming is a bit outside of the norm ("I'm a game designer." "oh! like video games?" "*sigh* no. like murder mystery games meet scavenger hunts played online and off and it's all kinda crazy fun." "oh. that sounds like a, um, interesting job") but the word alternate is not describing gaming, it is describing reality and the realities that we're dealing with are not so different from the usual and conventional ones. And, again, I point out that Alternative Reality is used as another term for Parallel Universe which is, as I said before, not a pre-requisite for ARGs.

I mean, feel free to think of it as Alternative Reality Gaming, if you'd like. But keep in mind that po-tay-to and po-tah-to are the same thing said differently and Alternative Reality and Alternate Reality are different things said, um, differently.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:15 pm
Last edited by imbriModerator on Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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natas
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 		I still believe it can be either or, and makes no difference whatsover. Alternative is an "alternate" way of doing things... see what I mean. So, if you take "reality" and choose this "alternate" reality, you are in an alternative reality. Confused you yet?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:20 pm
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imbriModerator
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 		An alternative may be an alternate way of doing something, but that's a noun and not an adjective. Another way to show that they are two different words...

I'd like the alternate alternative, please.
I'd like the alternative alternate, please.

Two very different meanings. And, if they were the same word and interchangeable, that would not be the case.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:25 pm
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natas
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imbri wrote:


I'd like the alternate alternative, please.
I'd like the alternative alternate, please.

Two very different meanings. And, if they were the same word and interchangeable, that would not be the case.


now, see, to me, those two mean exactly the same thing.

alternate (adj.) alternative (noun)
alternative (adj) alternate (noun)

same...Thanks for helping me out.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:33 pm
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natas
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 		By the way, Imbri, not to sound mean, but I really don't care one way or the other, I just think it's funny that the guy asked for help and his syntax was called into question rather than trying to lend him a hand.

As I said before, pot-A-tos and pot-AH-tos.

pe@ce

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:38 pm
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imbriModerator
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natas wrote:
I just think it's funny that the guy asked for help and his syntax was called into question rather than trying to lend him a hand.


Um, I did lend him a hand and gave him a fairly lengthy explanation of why I chose the game that I did. And I thought that by pointing out that he had the name incorrect was helpful, as well. Just sayin'

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:51 pm
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natas
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imbri wrote:


Um, I did lend him a hand and gave him a fairly lengthy explanation of why I chose the game that I did. And I thought that by pointing out that he had the name incorrect was helpful, as well. Just sayin'


Imbri, look, I really don't know how the two of us got into a disagreement. I wasn't talking to you in my first post in this thread.... I even quoted the person I was referring to and even pointed out that I agreed with your take on the matter (that we should call it "alternate" reality because that is the name that has been used so far, not because it's improper grammar or has a different meaning to use "alternative") Please reread my first post.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:00 pm
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imbriModerator
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 		Aww comeon, wouldn't you call this a debate more than a disagreement (I kid!)

You asked a question: "So aren't the terms alternate reality and alternative reality really the same thing?" I had an answere: "no."

But man, poor Josh, we've totally derailed this thing. I'm about to run out, but I'll split the post when I return Smile

(and... no hard feelings on my end! I hope there aren't any on yours. If so, I didn't mean to take you there. I just don't see "Alternative Reality" and "Alternate Reality" the same *at all* and I'm a bit more passionate and pedantic about it than I thought I'd be when I started down this road Smile)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:39 pm
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natas
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imbri wrote:
Aww comeon, wouldn't you call this a debate more than a disagreement (I kid!)


Should we start another debate vs. disagreement thread?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:07 pm
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vpisteve
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 		I can easily start an alternate thread, just as one alternative.

Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:24 pm
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Rekidk
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vpisteve wrote:
I can easily start an alternate thread, just as one alternative.

Rolling Eyes


Epic win! Very Happy

/me un-un-de-rails the thread.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:27 pm
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