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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Find the Lost Ring
[RING][PUZZLE]Eli Hunt/Secret site
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riquardo
Decorated

Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 280

 		The MAN command
When it says "What manual page do you want?", do you think it refers to an actual manual or it's asking for a page (command) to be entered manualy? My first interpretation was of an actual manual/book, so I've been toying with the command but to avail. If there's an actual manual, then it's a question of syntax or entering the right number for us to find it. That might gives us some leads on the whole rotating globe thing.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:07 pm
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Elizabeth123
Guest


 		Re: The MAN command
riquardo wrote:
When it says "What manual page do you want?", do you think it refers to an actual manual or it's asking for a page (command) to be entered manualy? My first interpretation was of an actual manual/book, so I've been toying with the command but to avail. If there's an actual manual, then it's a question of syntax or entering the right number for us to find it. That might gives us some leads on the whole rotating globe thing.
If you type Man (space) Anyword the response is "No Manual Response for Anyword... Not sure what this could mean.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:16 pm
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caggles
Greenhorn


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Toronto Ontario

 		Re: The MAN command
riquardo wrote:
When it says "What manual page do you want?", do you think it refers to an actual manual or it's asking for a page (command) to be entered manualy? My first interpretation was of an actual manual/book, so I've been toying with the command but to avail. If there's an actual manual, then it's a question of syntax or entering the right number for us to find it. That might gives us some leads on the whole rotating globe thing.


Well, given that the command prompt seems to be based on the Linux BASH (Bourne-Again Shell -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bash) and the "MAN" command in Linux usually will bring up a manual page for any command you feed it, I'd say that it probably is related to an actual manual. However, given the fact that it hasn't responded to any of the commands that we know yet as BASH commands should... maybe you're right? I would just think that they'd probably try to stick to the Linux syntax style, because why else would they have gone to all the trouble of creating those other folders (the ones shown by the LS command) to look exactly like the Linux / directory?


sapagoo wrote:
I was checking the Dongying that lies Southeast of Beijing, in the Shandong province.
Wikipedia lists it as 37° 27′ N, 118° 28' E



[spec]
In entering DONGYING into the command prompt, we get:
Quote:
Pending artifact confirmation

You think, maybe, that since it's so close to Beijing and, since the Beijing Olympics haven't happened yet, the OMPH strength for 2008.INF is PENDING too...maybe they're related? Maybe that's the location of the omphalos for this year's Olympic Games?
[/spec]

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:22 pm
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Elizabeth123
Guest


 		Re: The MAN command
caggles[quote="sapagoo wrote:
I was checking the Dongying that lies Southeast of Beijing, in the Shandong province.
Wikipedia lists it as 37° 27′ N, 118° 28' E


[spec]
In entering DONGYING into the command prompt, we get:
Quote:
Pending artifact confirmation

You think, maybe, that since it's so close to Beijing and, since the Beijing Olympics haven't happened yet, the OMPH strength for 2008.INF is PENDING too...maybe they're related? Maybe that's the location of the omphalos for this year's Olympic Games?
[/spec][/quote]No olympics have been near India, though...(Although India bid a number of times, and they're hosting the 2010 Commonwealth Games.)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:33 pm
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aliendial
Unfictologist


Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Posts: 3438
Location: Far Far Away. Nowhere Near You. Really.

 		BTW xnbomb has either complicated or simplified things for us - either we know (approximately) the methodology of the great omphalos makers of the past (those ancient greeks didn't have calculators and digital compasses and satellites after all) and can apply it again now that it has been more or less reverse-engineered [sorry - 'reverse-Geographic-Information-Scientized'] OR the omphalos network will miraculously update to modern ways of reckoning.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:42 pm
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lizmuir
Boot


Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 11
Location: The Bubble, UT

 		An Equidistant Location
Now that we've found an artifact, I'm wondering about that hint at the end of Eli's third podcast:

Quote:
Curiously, by retracing these coded navigation routes, historians have found something very unusual in the layout of the omphalos network. Somehow, the Greeks managed to construct their omphaloi of the center nodes of a system of perfectly equidistant destinations. For every destination in one direction, you could travel exactly the same distance in another direction, and arrive at an important site.


This seems very vague, as it gives us no clue as to how we should transmute the direction. However, it seems likely that another important site should be related to Stephanville.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:57 pm
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

 		I kinda feel like we're gonna be doing a lot of GIS stuff in this game (Given all the dots on the globe).
I kludged together a tool that comes pretty close to finding a destination omphalos given the type of message we're likely to see:
Code:
Omphalos 1 identified.
Navigate 20478 Scorpio 24 degrees.

All it requires is for you to enter the stadia value, zodiac, additional degrees and starting coordinates (In pretty much any form you like, DMS, radians or decimal degrees.).
It'll give you a new coordinate, hopefully, near the proper destination city.
It's defaulted to the search for Cardiff when starting in Stephenville.
It's off on that one by about 175km (I think due to magnetic deviation, which isn't part of the calcs as it's quite complicated and involves variables like time.).
If anyone knows of ways to make it better, let me know.
_________________
I'm telling you now, so you can't say, "Oh, I didn't know...Nobody told me!"


PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:11 pm
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Elizabeth123
Guest


 		Re: An Equidistant Location
lizmuir wrote:
Now that we've found an artifact, I'm wondering about that hint at the end of Eli's third podcast:

Quote:
Curiously, by retracing these coded navigation routes, historians have found something very unusual in the layout of the omphalos network. Somehow, the Greeks managed to construct their omphaloi of the center nodes of a system of perfectly equidistant destinations. For every destination in one direction, you could travel exactly the same distance in another direction, and arrive at an important site.


This seems very vague, as it gives us no clue as to how we should transmute the direction. However, it seems likely that another important site should be related to Stephanville.
Since Ariadne just happened to have traveled to Cardiff, don't you think that the other artifacts should be reasonably near to the other Agons? So if we take the distance between Stephanville and Cardiff using the Great Circle or loxodrome method, and spin a circle, we can see whether it lands close to one of the agons? (My guess would be Sao Paulo, since that's the only location anywhere near as close.)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:12 pm
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Fanysynthesis
Boot

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 20

 		Re: An Equidistant Location
Elizabeth123 wrote:
Since Ariadne just happened to have traveled to Cardiff, don't you think that the other artifacts should be reasonably near to the other Agons? So if we take the distance between Stephanville and Cardiff using the Great Circle or loxodrome method, and spin a circle, we can see whether it lands close to one of the agons? (My guess would be Sao Paulo, since that's the only location anywhere near as close.)


^ I agree. Do we know the exact locations of the others? Like the cities they're in right now?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:42 pm
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lizmuir
Boot


Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 11
Location: The Bubble, UT
Rogi Ocnorb wrote:

It's defaulted to the search for Cardiff when starting in Stephenville.

Hey, could you turn this off? I'm trying to find locations in other directions that might be equidistant. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:47 pm
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Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.
lizmuir wrote:
Rogi Ocnorb wrote:

It's defaulted to the search for Cardiff when starting in Stephenville.

Hey, could you turn this off? I'm trying to find locations in other directions that might be equidistant. Thanks.


Just change the values as you see fit. "Final Bearing" in this case.
The only "action" code is on the after update for the "Degrees" field (Recalculates "Final Bearing by adding "Zodiac" and "Degrees") and the submit button.

ETA: And the "decimal to DMS"/"DMS to decimal" converter fields update vertically using an "on Change" action.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:52 pm
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xnbomb
Unfettered


Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 660
Location: J302B S8JDC
aliendial wrote:
BTW xnbomb has either complicated or simplified things for us - either we know (approximately) the methodology of the great omphalos makers of the past (those ancient greeks didn't have calculators and digital compasses and satellites after all) and can apply it again now that it has been more or less reverse-engineered [sorry - 'reverse-Geographic-Information-Scientized'] OR the omphalos network will miraculously update to modern ways of reckoning.

You don't necessarily need that fancy electronic stuff. The idea of constant bearing navigation over considerable distances is modern by ancient Greek standards, but not that modern. Pedro Nunes, Gerhardus Mercator, and Edwin Wright cooked up the notion of accurate long distance navigation along constant bearings in the 16th Century. Nunes was actually operating under the delusion that lines of constant bearing were the shortest paths between two places in the world (even at long distances), but he still ending up creating a useful idea. Mercator's map became the most widely used and famous 2-d depiction of the world to this day (even though it's optimized for navigation by constant bearing over long distances, something that a person looking at a world map these days doesn't do very often). Edwin Wright more or less figured out how the math worked, and provided a table of values for manual integration of the latitude distortion compensation.

I'm not going to take that much responsibility here. The world is a real thing, and has a known shape. Getting between two specified locations in the world can take an infinite number of pathways. But there is only one shortest path (along a Great Circle in the correct direction) and only one shortest path of constant bearing (a loxodrome between the two points that doesn't go the wrong way around or circle the Earth many times before reaching the destination). The former is a characteristic of navigating between two points on a spheroid, and the latter of doing so on one with the geographic (lat/long) coordinate system ... I didn't make those up Wink .

Do I look forward to figuring out what the Omphalos Code means so that given a starting point, direction, and distance we can find the end point with a little less guesswork than this first try? Absolutely, I do. Am I worried about what the great omphalos makers of the past knew or didn't know? The answer is not really. All models of the Earth, ancient or modern, are approximations. As long as the models used don't violate the physical rules of traveling on the surface of our planet from one place to another, everything should be okay Very Happy .

EDIT - Typos fixed.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:57 pm
Last edited by xnbomb on Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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lizmuir
Boot


Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 11
Location: The Bubble, UT
Rogi Ocnorb wrote:

The only "action" code is on the after update for the "Degrees" field (Recalculates "Final Bearing by adding "Zodiac" and "Degrees") and the submit button.


I keep getting "NaN' in the degrees field for Pisces + 20.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:58 pm
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

 		nice site rogi... quick js update though, as I'm getting an error (browser compatibility).

change:
f.finalbearing.value=parseInt(f.zodiac.value) + parseInt(f.degrees.value);
to:
f.finalbearing.value=parseInt(f.zodiac[f.zodiac.selectedIndex].value) + parseInt(f.degrees.value);

simply because 'zodiac' is a dropdown not a text input. that code is browser compatible. (this is why it may return NaN for some people)
and perhaps copy the same command to the zodiac select onchange event.

otherwise, nicely done Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:04 pm
Last edited by thebruce on Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Weezel
Unfettered


Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 420
Location: National Park, NJ
Rogi Ocnorb wrote:
I kinda feel like we're gonna be doing a lot of GIS stuff in this game (Given all the dots on the globe).
I kludged together a tool that comes pretty close to finding a destination omphalos given the type of message we're likely to see:
Code:
Omphalos 1 identified.
Navigate 20478 Scorpio 24 degrees.

All it requires is for you to enter the stadia value, zodiac, additional degrees and starting coordinates (In pretty much any form you like, DMS, radians or decimal degrees.).
It'll give you a new coordinate, hopefully, near the proper destination city.
It's defaulted to the search for Cardiff when starting in Stephenville.
It's off on that one by about 175km (I think due to magnetic deviation, which isn't part of the calcs as it's quite complicated and involves variables like time.).
If anyone knows of ways to make it better, let me know.


Like my grandfather always used to say, the right tool for the right job.

.W.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:06 pm
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