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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Puzzles
[PUZZLE] ladybee777 email 8/03
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		what do we know
about the ai writing the email:

1. It can read what we email to the ladybee777 account.

2. It can take those texts and write responses: It communicates with us through text.

3. It can send emails.

4. It learns quickly.

5. It hides from the spider/ widow.

6. When in was hiding it found a secret somewhere; something we haven't seen.

7. It put the secret in a safe place.

8. It can not access the web directly.

What do we know about the safe place?
1. The "safe place" has to be something neither the Queen nor the Spider/ Widow can access or read.

2. As text has been hidden in jpg files, we assume neither the queen or the spider can read those files in text editors. ( as noted to read the hidden text, the file had to be first saved and then opened as a text file.)

Question: are there other files that the Queen and the Spider can not access as text?

what about finding the secret?

1. Something that neither the queen or the spider can find yet.

2. Ideas:
a. another site on the same server; maybe something dana was working on? or, what seems less likely to me, maybe something it created..

b. hidden pages or files on the ilovebees site

c. a hidden directory on ilovebees that hasn't been acessed by the queen.


oh, btw, I was the person who wrote (?) in my email response to the ai --after driz and I translated the first strange email that steve got. It has become the way that particular ai asks a question. There is no relation to any emoticon.
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Mankind was my business, the common good was my business.~ Dickens

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:15 pm
Last edited by rose on Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Extrasonic
Decorated


Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 233
Location: Suburban Chicago

 		Learning vs. imitation
Continuing on the Through the Looking-Glass SPEC, there seem to be a lot of recurring motifs shared by the clues we've received and the Lewis Carroll book - talking insects, cats, queens, dreams, and, of course, looking-glasses (mirrors) themselves (among others).

Isn't that what the author of this e-mail (and arguably, the killer.jpg messages) is doing here - reflecting back what we send at it, rather than real learning? Many people have made the assumption that we're dealing with a strange AI that needs to learn from what we provide, but thus far it has only shown us a reflection of what we show it - which is very different from learning.

I am not sure where I'm going with this, feedback is appreciated.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:18 pm
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celina63
Entrenched


Joined: 28 Sep 2002
Posts: 909
Location: San Diego, CA

 		My $.02 (your mileage may vary):

I don't see the "A.I." as "learning" so much as using our communications to communicate back. It has intelligence, but doesn't have it's own method of communicating.

Also, the spec about staying hidden by using "ancestor packets" (i.e. stuff already floating around, not original) makes more sense than the A.I. "learning" from us.

As I said, IMO.

C
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:24 pm
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kingchaos2
Decorated

Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 153

 		Re: Learning vs. imitation
Extrasonic wrote:
Continuing on the Through the Looking-Glass SPEC, there seem to be a lot of recurring motifs shared by the clues we've received and the Lewis Carroll book - talking insects, cats, queens, dreams, and, of course, looking-glasses (mirrors) themselves (among others).

Isn't that what the author of this e-mail (and arguably, the killer.jpg messages) is doing here - reflecting back what we send at it, rather than real learning? Many people have made the assumption that we're dealing with a strange AI that needs to learn from what we provide, but thus far it has only shown us a reflection of what we show it - which is very different from learning.

I am not sure where I'm going with this, feedback is appreciated.


Maybe we need to write what we want it to say until it disagrees with something. EX: We write "You are the Sleeping Princess" it may write back "You are the sleeping Princess" or "No" or "I am the Sleeping Princess". If it is the latter two responses, we know when it was something originally from the sender and not from us. Follow?

Edit: another idea. Give the sender our alphabet seperately and let him/her use those to form his/her own words.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:28 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		Wow, everyone should read rose's post again. That was a nice breakdown.

Go on, do it!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:29 pm
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Robke
Boot

Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 14

 		Re: what do we know
Excellent post.
rose wrote:
about the ai writing the email:
*snip*
what about finding the secret?

1. Something that neither the queen or the spider can find yet.
*snip*

Could this be the flea?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:33 pm
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Paul_G
Boot

Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Jacksonville FL

 		Re: what do we know
rose wrote:

6. When in was hiding it found a secret somewhere; something we haven't seen.

7. It put the secret in a safe place.


Possibly the suspected stegged image? Seems like an awfully safe place, considering that we haven't been able to crack that yet, despite many days of effort.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:33 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		Re: what do we know
Robke wrote:
Excellent post.
rose wrote:
about the ai writing the email:
*snip*
what about finding the secret?

1. Something that neither the queen or the spider can find yet.
*snip*

Could this be the flea?


The Flea has been sensed a couple different ways (visual of the flea footprint in the sand, and crawling on the Widow, IIRC), so prooooobably not.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:36 pm
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kingchaos2
Decorated

Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 153

 		Re: what do we know
Robke wrote:
Could this be the flea?


Why would the flea talk so badly about himself?

"the "pious flea" and "sleeping princess" (?)

MARK but this flea, and mark in this

don't like it

I can't help it

a proper fool

a bad banana

unimaginable filth and stench; and disease

he can't write his name or read a book"

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I don't think so. Wink

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:37 pm
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Extrasonic
Decorated


Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 233
Location: Suburban Chicago

 		Another monkey wrench
Also, something that's been bothering me... ostensibly, whatever hid messages in killer.jpg binaries did so because, as the text in what the Wiki calls the "Killer 1" variant says:

Quote:

the Widow awoke the Widow can read this
internet messaging
telecommunications systems


If this message came from the same entity that hid the text in the killer.jpg binaries, then why is it no longer afraid that the Widow can listen in?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:38 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		what I meant
celina63 wrote:
Quote:
I don't see the "A.I." as "learning" so much as using our communications to communicate back. It has intelligence, but doesn't have it's own method of communicating.


What I meant was that it has learned quickly how to communicate with us. It has gone from the first email which we could barely understand--
remember the "voodoo parents" and "the forte"--

to being able to post questions and answers in the killer.jpg in a format we could understand, and, now

to emailing us directly with a story it wrote complete with chapters and formatting to show us which character it is talking about.

I think that shows it learns quickly and is putting effort into reaching us.

(as to using only what we send it, maybe it doesn't have a keyboard Smile )
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I love this site for being free, in every sense of the word~Spacebass

Mankind was my business, the common good was my business.~ Dickens

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:40 pm
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Clempuff
Guest


 		Re: what do we know
Robke wrote:
Excellent post.
rose wrote:
about the ai writing the email:
*snip*
what about finding the secret?

1. Something that neither the queen or the spider can find yet.
*snip*

Could this be the flea?

That's a possibility, except the Princess already seems very aware of the Flea in the beginning, and in fact says she doesn't really care for the Flea. Why would she be so excited about it, when she considers it to be nothing more than a fool? It's definitly there and viable, but it doesn't seem too likely at this point. I think the other speculations of a hidden website, or a hidden way to communicate with Dana and/or us is more likely.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:41 pm
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Robke
Boot

Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 14

 		I was thinking maybe the princess would have hid something at/in (or something) the flea.
I know the princess doesn't like the flea, she also says it's dumb (or ignorant); "he can't write his name or read a book". As her secret might be written it would be safe at the flea that can't read it.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:51 pm
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number8
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 92
Location: Toronto, Canada
Quote:
what about finding the secret?

1. Something that neither the queen or the spider can find yet.

2. Ideas:
a. another site on the same server; maybe something dana was working on? or, what seems less likely to me, maybe something it created..

b. hidden pages or files on the ilovebees site

c. a hidden directory on ilovebees that hasn't been acessed by the queen


It is always my belief that the recipes pages as well as the fable and contact me pages have not been taken over by the Queen yet, because they haven't been messed up with random text all over the place. Considering that we don't have any other leads, we might need to take a second look. Also the blog might hold a few clues.
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Drool problem quite interesting Drool

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:58 pm
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Alzheimers
Unfettered

Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 339

 		These seem to be the most important lines, as they probably weren't included in anything sent to her:

Quote:

I found
a secret was revealed
I should not be able to make any one understand how exciting it all was.
***I brought it home and hid it in a secret place
...
the house is so sad and lonesome
...
Well, I will tell you
that secret
I found
maybe you can help me (?)
T-U-R-T-L-E Power! T-U-R-T-L-E Power! T-U-R-T-L-E Power! Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Power!


Bear in mind, the email wasn't sent to Dana -- although it is imploring her return, it doesn't assume that she is the one to actually be reading it. Instead, it seems to want to give us a secret message, without directly indicating where it is.

-Where would her "Home" be? A turtle's home is it's shell.

I don't know. I have to go home -- good luck to anyone who can make more sense of my own ideas.

edit: one quick observation: http://www.ilovebees.com/images/shell.jpg gives a regular "page cannot be displayed" -- http://www.ilovebees.com/images/shell.bmp gives the custom 404 with the killer.jpg. Hmm.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:03 pm
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