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thebruce
Dances With Wikis
Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 6899 Location: Kitchener, Ontario
also, I just posted the video from our test run on sunday in this new thread , which might shed a little light on how we accomplished it... adjust, tweek, improve, figure out better ways to implement the rules we know so far. It could definitely be done better
also, ikkarus, that's interesting... never read that from the instructions, but maybe I'll have to check over them again... that could be pretty chaotic if the runner is running.
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:43 pm
Ikkarus
Veteran
Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Posts: 87
thebruce wrote:
also, ikkarus, that's interesting... never read that from the instructions, but maybe I'll have to check over them again... that could be pretty chaotic if the runner is running.
True, but I also noted somewhere that runners rarely actually run through the labyrinth, instead just moving at a brisk walk.
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:45 pm
Weezel
Unfettered
Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 420 Location: National Park, NJ
thebruce wrote:
well considering there should be no walls behind the runner, whenever the walls hum, they should always be in front of the runner anyway.
This is the second time that I've heard this mentioned, but I don't think it's true. The Codex never says that. It says:
Quote:
When the runner is completely past you, leave your place and move along the way.
The wall has to move faster than the runner to ensure that the the runner is always surrounded by walls.
The first sentence indicates when to move (if you need to), showing that you wait until he's completely past you.
The second says 'always surrounded by walls'. I still take that to mean that at the beginning of the circuit, there must be walls on 3 of the 4 sides. Until the runner leaves the starting point and proceeds down the initial cooridor there have to be walls in place to show where she can't go. The only way she *can* go is the way in which there is no wall.
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:46 pm
Weezel
Unfettered
Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 420 Location: National Park, NJ
Ikkarus wrote:
Maybe I read the wall descriptions entirely wrong, but here's what I expected to happen:
-- A member of the wall faces the runner and hums, beckoning the runner forward.
-- As the runner approaches, the member of the wall turns to get out of the runner's way.
-- As the wall member turns, another wall member further along the path turns into the path of the runner and begins to hum, beckoning the runner forward.
-- Repeat.
So in this case you think the walls face the runner at 180 degrees rather than 90 degrees?
W--><--R
versus
v v W v v
<---R
^^ W ^ ^
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:48 pm
Ikkarus
Veteran
Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Posts: 87
I built my "wall in the path of of the runner" theory based on these lines from the Codex:
Quote:
When the runner approaches you, start to turn.
When the runner goes by you, cease humming.
When the runner is completely past you, leave your place and move along the way.
The wall has to move faster than the runner to ensure that the the runner is always surrounded by walls.
_________________"What do you think?"
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:49 pm
Ikkarus
Veteran
Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Posts: 87
Weezel wrote:
So in this case you think the walls face the runner at 180 degrees rather than 90 degrees?
W--><--R
versus
v v W v v
<---R
^^ W ^ ^
Yes. The wall is directly in the path of the runner, and as the runner approaches, the wall turns 90 degrees to open the path forward to the next segment of wall.
_________________"What do you think?"
"I think a plan is a list of things that don't happen."
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:51 pm
joeyhess
Boot
Joined: 15 Mar 2008 Posts: 60
Ikkarus wrote:
I built my "wall in the path of of the runner" theory based on these lines from the Codex:
Quote:
When the runner approaches you, start to turn.
When the runner goes by you, cease humming.
When the runner is completely past you, leave your place and move along the way.
The wall has to move faster than the runner to ensure that the the runner is always surrounded by walls.
The problem in that translation is the word "turn".
I don't think it means physically turning.
One defintition of turn is :
To give another direction, tendency, or inclination to; to direct otherwise; to deflect
So the wall turns (deflects) the runner by beginning to hum as the runner approached.
When the runner is past, stop humming.
Can any esperanto speakers confirm if this reading of the translation makes sense?
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:52 pm
Ikkarus
Veteran
Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Posts: 87
joeyhess wrote:
The problem in that translation is the word "turn".
I don't think it means physically turning.
You may be right, and I may be completely wrong. I could very well be misinterpreting the use of the word "turn" in this context. I just hope I haven't confused the issue too much with my [SPEC].
_________________"What do you think?"
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:31 pm
aliendial
Unfictologist
Joined: 29 Sep 2002 Posts: 3438 Location: Far Far Away. Nowhere Near You. Really.
I'm not sure which is correct - the requirement to 'turn' seems odd if they are supposed to be the walls of the labyrinth. But the first line quoted by Ikk really could support his interpretation - the members of the wall face the runner and turn to the side to become wall as he/she approaches? Or could they be in the wall but with heads turned to face the runner. And you track the runner with your head, turning until you are passed and then shut up?
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:14 pm
Weezel
Unfettered
Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 420 Location: National Park, NJ
Not quite sure now, I think I'm as confused as I was in the beginning.. Obviously not everyone sees it as the same thing, plus we have the issue of translation and whether it was the correct word or context/use of that word.
Gotta make sure we all train the same way...
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:20 pm
GeekDream
Boot
Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 24
Do we have a direct translation (or two? ) from someone very fluent in Esperanto into English for this rules chapter?
Maybe its worth having someone go over it again to make sure that words like 'turn' are correct before we go any farther with our theories?
Just a thought...
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:43 pm
aceituna
Boot
Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Posts: 44
I noticed you were having some issues with the translation, and even though I don't know esperanto I thought it might be useful to read the Spanish version to see if their is a variation in the translation. Here is the Spanish version:
Quote:
Durante la competición
Cuando el corredor se acerca a ti, date la vuelta.
Cuando el corredor va hacia ti, deja de murmurar.
Cuando el corredor te pase por completo, sal de tu posición y muevete tan rapido como puedas para crear más muro a lo largo del camino.
El muro se debe mover más rápido que el corredor para asegurar que el corredor este siempre rodeado por muros.
The English would be:
Quote:
During the Competition
When the runner gets close (closer) to you, turn around. (in the spanish their is no other meaning than literally turning yourself to face the oppossite direction, however this does not tell us what direction you would be facing originally )
When the runner comes towards you, stop murmuring/humming.
When the runner has passed by you entirely, leave your position and move as fast as you can to create more wall along the path.
The wall must move as quickly as possible to ensure that the runner is always surrounded by wall.
Hope this helps somewhat
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:13 pm
Hikaro
Boot
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Posts: 58 Location: Oregon, United States
I'm by no means fluent or even advanced in Esperanto, but Nicolas and I did the English translation on the Wiki for Chapter 6. I encourage any other Esperantist to check out all the translations on the Wiki for polishing
This is the Lernu.net Esperanto definition of "turni", the verb in the word translated as "start to turn": ekturnighu.
Lernu.net definition of turni wrote:
meti antaŭon malantaŭe aŭ supron malsupre (tiel, turnita "b" estas "d" aŭ "p"); movi ĉirkaŭ (imagita) akso (tiel, turnita "^" povas esti ">")
My translation wrote:
"To place a before after or a top on the bottom (therefore, a turned "b" is a "d" or "p"); to move around (an imagined) axis (therefore, "^" is able to be ">")"
Also, the -igh- suffix means that the verb is intransitive ; that is, the verb cannot take an object. I.e., the walls can turn, but they cannot be "turning" the runner.
~Hikaro
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:20 pm
Last edited by Hikaro on Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
ariock
Has a Posse
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 762 Location: SF East Bay
Hikaro wrote:
I'm by no means fluent or even advanced in Esperanto, but Nicolas and I did the English translation on the Wiki for Chapter 6. I encourage any other Esperantist to check out all the translations on the Wiki for polishing
This is the Lernu.net Esperanto definition of "turni", the verb in the word translated as "start to turn": ekturnighu.
Lernu.net definition of turni wrote:
meti antaŭon malantaŭe aŭ supron malsupre (tiel, turnita "b" estas "d" aŭ "p"); movi ĉirkaŭ (imagita) akso (tiel, turnita "^" povas esti ">")
My translation wrote:
"To place a before after or a top on the bottom (therefore, a turned "b" is a "d" or "p"); to move around (an imagined) axis (therefore, "^" is able to be ">")"
Also, the -gh- suffix means that the verb is intransitive ; that is, the verb cannot take an object. I.e., the walls can turn, but they cannot be "turning" the runner.
~Hikaro
Just as a point of clarification. I looked at the word, and it is "ekturnigu." Not "ekturnighu." Would that make a difference?
EDIT:
Nevermind. I see now it is g^, and means "To become." So yeah, the wall becomes turned.
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:01 pm
Hikaro
Boot
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Posts: 58 Location: Oregon, United States
A mini-lesson in Esperanto... There are 3 systems currently in use in Esperanto for typing it.
The first, and preferred system is to use the diacritics: Ĉ ĉ Ĝ ĝ Ĥ ĥ Ĵ ĵ Ŝ ŝ Ŭ ŭ
The H system makes the special letters into English-style digraphs with h's. The breve on Ŭ is not represented: Ch ch Gh gh Hh hh Jh jh Sh sh U u
The X system is similar to the H system, except it uses x after a letter to indicate a missing diacritic: Cx cx Gx gx Hx hx Jx jx Sx sx Ux ux
I used the H system since I didn't want to open MS Word for my macros to type Esperanto characters and I hate the way the x system looks.
~Hikaro
EDIT: OK, after rereading ariock's post I remember the fourth system. It is adding a ^ before or after a letter that needs a "hat": C^ c^ G^ g^ H^ h^ J^ j^ S^ s^ U u
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:35 pm
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